[quake3] ioUrT licensing controversy (was Re: Greetings)

[Christopher Bunting]

Excepts from the Q3 GPL License..

  For example, if you distribute copies of such a program, whether
gratis or for a fee, you must give the recipients all the rights that
you have.  You must make sure that they, too, receive or can get the
source code.  And you must show them these terms so they know their
rights.

The source code for a work means the preferred form of the work for
making modifications to it.  For an executable work, complete source
code means all the source code for all modules it contains, plus any
associated interface definition files, plus the scripts used to
control compilation and installation of the executable.  However, as a
special exception, the source code distributed need not include
anything that is normally distributed (in either source or binary
form) with the major components (compiler, kernel, and so on) of the
operating system on which the executable runs, unless that component
itself accompanies the executable.

If distribution of executable or object code is made by offering
access to copy from a designated place, then offering equivalent
access to copy the source code from the same place counts as
distribution of the source code, even though third parties are not
compelled to copy the source along with the object code.

-----------

On Thu, Apr 17, 2008 at 2:19 PM, Tim Angus <tim at ngus.net> wrote:

> On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:07:24 +0200 Erik wrote:
> > Being BASEGAME != depending on. It can run any other mod no
> > problem at all by just setting the appropriate fs_game. *So there's
> > no GPL violation by ioUrbanTerror.*
>
> By setting BASEGAME you are indicating an intention of dependence.
> The fact that it /can/ run whatever other mod you want doesn't matter.
>
> If you think the "oh but it can do X" argument works you could prove
> all sorts of silly things. For example, say I have a closed app which I
> distribute with GPL libs which it relies on (kind of the reverse of the
> situation here). I can now say "oh but it /can/ use this set of closed
> libs over here too, which you can get yourself. NO GPL PROBLEM!". I hope
> you agree this is crazy talk.
>
> Besides who in their right mind is going to download UrT simply to run
> another mod? ioUrT is not a useful product without a game. Fortunately
> it is distributed with one and is configured to use it by default. If
> this is not dependence I don't know what is.
>
> > It actually says that you can use the sdk to CREATE mods for
> > operation with Q3A only, it doesn't say the mods are for USAGE with
> > Q3A only. Pretty important difference. Urban Terror (the mod) WAS
> > created for Q3A and still works fine on it. It just HAPPENS to run on
> > GPL Q3-engines too. And nothing forbids that.
>
> "a. So long as this Agreement accompanies each copy you make of the
> Software, and so long as you fully comply, at all times, with this
> Agreement, ID grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to
> distribute copies of the Software free of charge for non-commercial
> purposes by electronic means only and the non-exclusive and limited
> right to use the Software to create your own modifications (the "New
> Creations") for operation only with the full version of the software
> game QUAKE III ARENA"
>
> So you're denying that distributing UrT with ioUrT suggests you
> should use UrT with ioUrT? Is your argument that it's the user deciding
> to use ioUrT? I really think that's pretty ridiculous. By distributing
> them together you're /inviting/ the user to use them in tandem.
>
> > The UrT team even asked
> > IDsoftware directly to make sure they were doing nothing wrong and
> > IDsoftware gave them the okay. *So no SDK violation either.*
>
> I was under the impression that the correspondance with id was in order
> to secure a waiver from the above clause; i.e. admission of a licensing
> issue and legal permission to ignore it. Unfortunately since no one
> arguing over the licensing has ever seen or produced the
> communication in question (including you, or so you told us), it
> doesn't seem worth mentioning.
>
> > They ARE separate products, they are just bundled in one
> > zip/installer for convenience.
>
> By that logic, is the baseq3 game a separate product from Q3A?
>
> > PS: I am now retired from Urban Terror, so I couldn't really care
> > less about all this
>
> > I don't know and don't really care about the details,
>
> ...but you're certain there are no licensing problems?
>
> > but I do know that linux distros often come combined with closed
> > source software as well. So I don't really see a problem.
>
> Linux distributions are aggregations of independent works. ioUrT and UrT
> share headers, data structures and APIs which are intended to
> interoperate. This analogy is silly.
>
> Regardless of your opinion/thoughts of the licenses employed, you can't
> deny that at best the whole shebang has been engineered to skirt any
> licensing issues and avoid giving anything back. I personally think
> that's a crock of shit.
>
>
> ---
> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org
> Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50
>
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://icculus.org/pipermail/quake3/attachments/20080417/4772bf2d/attachment.htm>