ioUrT licensing controversy (was Re: Greetings)

Tim Angus tim at ngus.net
Thu Apr 17 14:19:12 EDT 2008


On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 17:07:24 +0200 Erik wrote:
> Being BASEGAME != depending on. It can run any other mod no 
> problem at all by just setting the appropriate fs_game. *So there's
> no GPL violation by ioUrbanTerror.*

By setting BASEGAME you are indicating an intention of dependence.
The fact that it /can/ run whatever other mod you want doesn't matter.

If you think the "oh but it can do X" argument works you could prove
all sorts of silly things. For example, say I have a closed app which I
distribute with GPL libs which it relies on (kind of the reverse of the
situation here). I can now say "oh but it /can/ use this set of closed
libs over here too, which you can get yourself. NO GPL PROBLEM!". I hope
you agree this is crazy talk.

Besides who in their right mind is going to download UrT simply to run
another mod? ioUrT is not a useful product without a game. Fortunately
it is distributed with one and is configured to use it by default. If
this is not dependence I don't know what is.

> It actually says that you can use the sdk to CREATE mods for
> operation with Q3A only, it doesn't say the mods are for USAGE with
> Q3A only. Pretty important difference. Urban Terror (the mod) WAS
> created for Q3A and still works fine on it. It just HAPPENS to run on
> GPL Q3-engines too. And nothing forbids that. 

"a. So long as this Agreement accompanies each copy you make of the
Software, and so long as you fully comply, at all times, with this
Agreement, ID grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to
distribute copies of the Software free of charge for non-commercial
purposes by electronic means only and the non-exclusive and limited
right to use the Software to create your own modifications (the “New
Creations”) for operation only with the full version of the software
game QUAKE III ARENA"

So you're denying that distributing UrT with ioUrT suggests you
should use UrT with ioUrT? Is your argument that it's the user deciding
to use ioUrT? I really think that's pretty ridiculous. By distributing
them together you're /inviting/ the user to use them in tandem.

> The UrT team even asked
> IDsoftware directly to make sure they were doing nothing wrong and
> IDsoftware gave them the okay. *So no SDK violation either.*

I was under the impression that the correspondance with id was in order
to secure a waiver from the above clause; i.e. admission of a licensing
issue and legal permission to ignore it. Unfortunately since no one
arguing over the licensing has ever seen or produced the
communication in question (including you, or so you told us), it
doesn't seem worth mentioning.

> They ARE separate products, they are just bundled in one
> zip/installer for convenience.

By that logic, is the baseq3 game a separate product from Q3A?

> PS: I am now retired from Urban Terror, so I couldn't really care
> less about all this

> I don't know and don't really care about the details,

...but you're certain there are no licensing problems?

> but I do know that linux distros often come combined with closed
> source software as well. So I don't really see a problem.

Linux distributions are aggregations of independent works. ioUrT and UrT
share headers, data structures and APIs which are intended to
interoperate. This analogy is silly.

Regardless of your opinion/thoughts of the licenses employed, you can't
deny that at best the whole shebang has been engineered to skirt any
licensing issues and avoid giving anything back. I personally think
that's a crock of shit.




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