[Gtkradiant] mo' bullshit

Timothee Besset gtkradiant@zerowing.idsoftware.com
Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:28:50 +0100

I don't think we have at this time any known issue of map corruption. We
know that it may happen though, and it is greatly related to the very old
.map format. XMAP should solve our map corruption problems to some extent
(well, except the import/export and transition from .map to .xmap, but
once this is done we should have a reliable format).


On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 14:14:41 -0600
"jeremiah sypult" <js@mindgrid.net> wrote:

> > > feedback welcome obviously :)
> From a tolerating mappers standpoint, I still appreciate everything you
> developers are doing. If there were a noble cause to coding that I could
> partake in, it would definetely be the id Editors and utilities. Ignore the
> bullshitting and ranting, please continue doing what you do because you like
> doing it -- not because people are pissed at you. I commend you guys for
> taking such harsh words repeatedly over and over, time after time.
> I have some comments on what has been said as of late... And in terms of
> problems, some of them are rather obscured that it is difficult to
> pinpoint... I will keep trying though (who likes losing their hours and/or
> months of work anyways?). When I find concrete proof of a problem I attempt
> to explain it as best as I can and try and give solutions.
> > Perhaps a remote installer that people could run to update their
> GtkRadiant
> > installs, with the option of preserving older builds.
> This is a good idea, but after already reading ttimo's reply I can
> understand the somewhat difficulty.
> There is an alternative idea, and that is to take a little bit of time and
> 'modularize' things from the editor and basically have an 'updater' page
> that has the latest full package, or the updated 'modules' for the editor --
> modules like binaries, game packs, media packs, examples, documentation --
> all dated; maybe even with a change history?
> This would be a very simple page with nothing on it but the listitems that
> could be bookmarked; check the version number/date and download/install... I
> would be happy with just ZIP files in this situation --
> I would imagine that maintaining a single HTML page with links sure beats
> writing an automatic updater program...
> > I'm not sure what kind of action we should take. Could just post on
> > qeradiant.com with some more explanations. But I think a more definitive
> > page on the website may be good. Some kind of manifest, explaining how the
> > QA is done, how the releases are handled and stuff.
> In terms of 'development', I do have an opinion. Some of the biggest
> problems I have seen with the editor is data corruption, as stated in the
> bullshit rant. Although unfortunate, it does happen. Personally, in the
> middle of doing so many changes and so many updates -- while implementing so
> many new features and processes things are bound to get out of whack.
> (This might sound a little cheesy, but I know where it is coming from. Try
> to bear with the cheesy wording... :)
> Above all else, the map data is the most important thing. Once the map data
> starts to get corrupt that problem should be immediately attacked and
> corrected. Halt all other development -- especially new features and
> processes (they can be the cause)... Most -- if not ALL other bugs can wait
> when it comes to map data corruption.  Corruption is the ultimate poison to
> creativity and usage. Once you take something that allows people to express
> themselves happily, and allow it to destroy their creations, it becomes a
> disheartening poison... Think of it this way: what if your Microsoft or GNU
> C compiler corrupted small parts of your source as it compiled it? Or what
> if your text editor corrupted the buffer and places random characters in
> place of spaces and/or other characters? Determination starts to lower and
> the need to get away from the work increases.
> Who wants to eat the fruit from a poisoned tree?
> I hope I get the point across... Program crashes are one thing when you lose
> at a minimum of hours of work... But when your data becomes corrupt -- even
> if you have backups every week -- redoing that kind of work (especially on a
> creative level -- mapping AND coding) for a weeks worth of time can make
> someone who does something for free and fun want to give up. The thoughts
> have crossed my mind, but encouragement has kept me going. It goes a long
> way.
> Does this make sense? I'm up for comments and discussion...
> .jer
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