[cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the PC

escapedturkey escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
Wed Oct 21 03:46:45 EDT 2009


Windows only servers? Forget that ...

Steffen Tronstad wrote:
> DICE are moving in the same direction: 
> 
> Battlefield 1943 - no community servers (matchmaking). 
> Battlefield Heroes - only 5 worldwide GSPs (matchmaking). 
> All future releases - only windows dedicated servers (if any).
> 
> Esport as we know it, is dying :|
> 
> 
> -----Opprinnelig melding-----
> Fra: Mavrick [mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com] 
> Sendt: 21. oktober 2009 09:28
> Til: Call of Duty server admin list.
> Emne: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the PC
> 
> Let's try and get DICE on a webcast with Joker and RudeDog? See if they 
> would be willing to back a community built FPS, for FPS Players by FPS 
> players?
> 
> The latest post by 402 doesn't tell us anything more than what we 
> already know imo. "Questions, assumptions, and speculation I intend to 
> dispel." He really knows how to put his foot in his mouth.
> 
> I would be willing to throw the $100 i didn't spend on COD6 to a 
> community built FPS for sure!
> 
> Andre Lorbach wrote:
>> I didn't like the expensive ranked system either, but aAt least BF2 had an
>> the option to run your own "unranked" dedicated servers. 
>>
>> --
>> regards,
>> Andre
>>
>>
>>   
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: escapedturkey [mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com]
>>> Sent: Dienstag, 20. Oktober 2009 21:41
>>> To: Call of Duty server admin list.
>>> Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the PC
>>>
>>> Not a fan of the ranked server system that BF2 had. It was very hurtful
>>> to the mod scene. Ranked servers costed more and were restricted to FTP
>>> access. Hopefully DICE doesn't do the whole ranked server system again.
>>>
>>> RaBBiT wrote:
>>>     
>>>> I've always wanted to move to Valve, but only the real COD community
>>>>       
>>> can
>>>     
>>>> make a real source mod that feels like a cod game.
>>>> Btw a PC game like cod or coduo...
>>>> Time will tell, i'll be glad to map on that project.
>>>> Otherwise DICE might make the GOTY on PC with BFBC2.
>>>>
>>>> PS: What about Treyarch? will they screw things up next year?
>>>>
>>>> Rabbit
>>>>
>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>     *From:* Seth Sauls <mailto:wizz220 at gmail.com>
>>>>     *To:* Call of Duty server admin list. <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:27 PM
>>>>     *Subject:* Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the
>>>>       
>>> PC
>>>     
>>>>     I say that a group of community modders and mappers gets together
>>>>     and starts a "source" mod.  Call it MW2:Source or something like
>>>>       
>>> that.
>>>     
>>>>     Make it badass and build it off the source engine.  Make the maps
>>>>     exactly like in MW2, models and all.  Then for a map pack make
>>>>       
>>> the
>>>     
>>>>     stock cod4 maps/models and so on.
>>>>
>>>>     What do you all say....
>>>>
>>>>     Wizz
>>>>
>>>>     On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Josh Luthman <iam8up at gmail.com
>>>>     <mailto:iam8up at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>         Did anyone think that maybe they're trying to take away Halo
>>>>       
>>> 3
>>>     
>>>>         players?
>>>>
>>>>         On 10/20/09, Lars Vik <lars at 3056.net <mailto:lars at 3056.net>>
>>>>       
>>> wrote:
>>>     
>>>>          > Hi,
>>>>          >
>>>>          > I have both xbox 360 and PS3, but use the consoles mainly
>>>>       
>>> for
>>>     
>>>>         ...well...
>>>>          > console games. Like racing games, Rockband etc. But is it
>>>>       
>>> really
>>>     
>>>>          > possible to play FPS on console? I have tried misc FPS
>>>>       
>>> demos
>>>     
>>>>         and so on,
>>>>          > but I find it hopeless. Clearly, if the majority of CoD
>>>>         players are on
>>>>          > console, i must have missed something? I.e. can you get
>>>>         keyboard/mouse
>>>>          > to xbox 360? They aren't seriously using the hand
>>>>         controller/joystick?
>>>>          >
>>>>          > I am also a bit surprised IW are selling more of a FPS
>>>>       
>>> game
>>>     
>>>>         to console
>>>>          > than to PC. I can't help but thing that I am getting old
>>>>       
>>> or
>>>     
>>>>         something
>>>>          > like that. That I am out of the loop so to speak.
>>>>          >
>>>>          > Hmmm....
>>>>          >
>>>>          > John Kennington wrote:
>>>>          >> There was a group of modders that tried that and
>>>>       
>>> succeeded,
>>>     
>>>>         somewhat.
>>>>          >> Red Oktober is a mod and is a decent game, however it is
>>>>       
>>> far to
>>>     
>>>>          >> realistic for the casual player.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >> John
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 2:49 PM, escapedturkey
>>>>          >> <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>>          >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>> wrote:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>     Tough to say. I think the mod community, if combining
>>>>         forces, can
>>>>          >>     make any game engine or mod run better, faster, and
>>>>       
>>> more
>>>     
>>>>         fun.
>>>>          >>     Faith in the community. For open-source, my vote goes
>>>>       
>>> to:
>>>     
>>>>          >>     http://xreal-project.net <http://xreal-project.net/>
>>>>       
>>> --
>>>     
>>>>         based on IOQuake3.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>     However, even IOQuake3 will do:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>     http://ioquake3.org <http://ioquake3.org/>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>     Enuff of my rambling ...
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>     Martin H wrote:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         Problem with the source engine is its not so good
>>>>       
>>> at
>>>     
>>>>         making a
>>>>          >>         game like CoD, of all the mods i've played to
>>>>       
>>> date
>>>     
>>>>         the only
>>>>          >>         one that had potential imo was Insurgency. Which
>>>>         although fun,
>>>>          >>         didnt come close to the gameplay of CoD
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         I just dont think the source engine is cut out
>>>>       
>>> for a
>>>     
>>>>         game like
>>>>          >>         cod. come to think of it though, i cant think of
>>>>         anything that
>>>>          >>         is...
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         One of the gripes i have with the system they
>>>>       
>>> intend
>>>     
>>>>         on using
>>>>          >>         is, if the matchmaking system always puts you
>>>>         against people
>>>>          >>         at your skill level, how is a player meant to
>>>>         progress? i've
>>>>          >>         always found the best way to improve is to be
>>>>         subjected to
>>>>          >>         repeated raping. If IWNet dumps you with players
>>>>       
>>> on your
>>>     
>>>>          >>         level, you just wont improve.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         It says its done on "skill level". How is a skill
>>>>       
>>> level
>>>     
>>>>          >>         determined? Average KD ratio? if thats the case,
>>>>         players will
>>>>          >>         be flying up and down the skill rankings every
>>>>       
>>> time
>>>     
>>>>         they have
>>>>          >>         a bad/good day. If a player is doing particularly
>>>>         well on a
>>>>          >>         certain day, their KD ratio would increase. But
>>>>       
>>> the
>>>     
>>>>         next day,
>>>>          >>         if they're back to 'normal' levels, they'll be
>>>>       
>>> way
>>>     
>>>>         out of
>>>>          >>         their depth. Or vice versa. quite easy to have a
>>>>       
>>> bad
>>>     
>>>>         day, and
>>>>          >>         then find yourself on a server with people way
>>>>       
>>> below
>>>     
>>>>         your
>>>>          >>         actual skill rating.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         "The biggest benefit of using IWnet by far is the
>>>>         fact that
>>>>          >>         you don't have to worry about joining a server
>>>>       
>>> full of
>>>     
>>>>          >>         aim-bots, wallhacks, or cheaters. Or relying on
>>>>       
>>> the
>>>     
>>>>         server
>>>>          >>         admin of the server to constantly be monitoring,
>>>>         banning, and
>>>>          >>         policing it."
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         Yeah, thats great until theres an admin that isnt
>>>>         100% clued
>>>>          >>         up on banning people, and theres a guy on the
>>>>       
>>> server
>>>     
>>>>         who's
>>>>          >>         name is changing every two seconds. Its going to
>>>>       
>>> be no
>>>     
>>>>          >>         different than a CoD4 server in reality.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         Surely the better way to get rid of cheating
>>>>       
>>> would
>>>     
>>>>         be to seal
>>>>          >>         up all the holes that allow these hacks to be
>>>>         created in the
>>>>          >>         first place?
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         2009/10/20 Joker{eXtreme+}
>>>>       
>>> <joker at mycallofduty.com
>>>     
>>>>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>>>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>>
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>>     
>>>>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>>>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            Another post by Bowling
>>>>          >>            http://www.fourzerotwo.com/?p=745
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            ~Joker
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            ----- Original Message ----- From:
>>>>       
>>> "escapedturkey"
>>>     
>>>>          >>            <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>>>          >>            <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            To: "Call of Duty server admin list."
>>>>         <cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>            <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>     
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:06 AM
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern
>>>>         Warfare 2 on
>>>>          >>         the PC
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            Best thing to do is start with the mod makers
>>>>       
>>> in
>>>     
>>>>         that first
>>>>          >>         interview.
>>>>          >>            Have them get together with a single purpose
>>>>         "make or mod an
>>>>          >>            alternative".
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            Valve offers great support:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>
>>>>       
>>> http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Building_Mods_with_Valve_Techno
>>> logy
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            :)
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            Bong-Master wrote:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                broken record Lmfto no just a long record
>>>>       
>>> lol
>>>     
>>>>         any how,
>>>>          >>         how &
>>>>          >>                were do you
>>>>          >>                start ?
>>>>          >>
>>>>          --------------------------------------------------
>>>>          >>                From: "escapedturkey"
>>>>         <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>>>          >>                <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:55 PM
>>>>          >>                To: "Call of Duty server admin list."
>>>>         <cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>                <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent,
>>>>       
>>> Modern
>>>     
>>>>         Warfare 2
>>>>          >>         on the PC
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                    Exactly. I don't see why this can't be
>>>>         done via the
>>>>          >>         Source
>>>>          >>                    engine or
>>>>          >>                    other means. All the weapons, game
>>>>       
>>> play,
>>>     
>>>>         and such
>>>>          >>         can be
>>>>          >>                    replicated.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                    Valve shows a lot of support, has VAC,
>>>>         dedicated Linux
>>>>          >>                    binares, etc.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                    Anyhow, I am sounding like a broken
>>>>         record. :)
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                    Hannu Kumpeli wrote:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                        Lets put the money together from
>>>>       
>>> the
>>>     
>>>>         100,000+
>>>>          >>         signatures
>>>>          >>                        and let some
>>>>          >>                        company make us the game we want
>>>>       
>>> with
>>>     
>>>>         DEDI
>>>>          >>         SUPPORT :D
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                            Let's go open-source or Source
>>>>         engine! :)
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                            As I listened to the interview
>>>>         most of the
>>>>          >>         people
>>>>          >>                            talking were
>>>>          >>                            modders. Can't they all come
>>>>         together and do a
>>>>          >>                            Source mod or open
>>>>          >>                            source project?
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                            I'm sure a Source engine mod
>>>>         would work
>>>>          >>         quite well.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                            Source and open-source aren't
>>>>       
>>> the
>>>     
>>>>         same, for
>>>>          >>         anyone
>>>>          >>                            confused. :)
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                            Joker{eXtreme+} wrote:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                Confirmation that they are
>>>>         still NOT
>>>>          >>         going to
>>>>          >>                                put in Dedi Server
>>>>          >>                                support.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                I'm done.  Thank you all
>>>>       
>>> and
>>>     
>>>>         have a
>>>>          >>         good life.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                ~Joker
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                ----- Original Message ---
>>>>       
>>> --
>>>     
>>>>         From:
>>>>          >>         "Einar S. Idsø"
>>>>          >>                                <einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>>>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>>>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>>>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>>>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                To: "Call of Duty server
>>>>         admin list."
>>>>          >>                                <cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                Sent: Tuesday, October 20,
>>>>         2009 10:32 AM
>>>>          >>                                Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry
>>>>       
>>> have
>>>     
>>>>         to vent,
>>>>          >>         Modern
>>>>          >>                                Warfare 2 on the PC
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                Just out: Official
>>>>       
>>> Infinity Ward
>>>     
>>>>          >>         response to
>>>>          >>                                #MW2 PC players
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/10/20/modern-
>>>>       
>>> warfare-2-dedicated-server-response.aspx
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                Cheers,
>>>>          >>                                Einar
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at
>>>>       
>>> 3:12 PM,
>>>     
>>>>          >>         escapedturkey
>>>>          >>
>>>>          <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>> wrote:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                    Wouldn't it best to
>>>>       
>>> offer
>>>     
>>>>         both?
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                    IW.net and dedicated
>>>>         servers as an
>>>>          >>         option?
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                    That way they can see
>>>>       
>>> by
>>>     
>>>>         the statistics
>>>>          >>                                    which is the preferred
>>>>          >>                                    mode of game
>>>>          >>                                    play.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                    Schlup wrote:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                        Yes fake, was
>>>>       
>>> there
>>>     
>>>>         really any
>>>>          >>         doubt?
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                        -----Original
>>>>         Message-----
>>>>          >>                                        From: Mavrick
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          [mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>] Sent:
>>>>          >>                                        Tuesday,
>>>>          >>                                        October 20,
>>>>          >>                                        2009 7:42 AM
>>>>          >>                                        To: Call of Duty
>>>>         server admin list.
>>>>          >>                                        Subject: Re: [cod]
>>>>         Sorry have
>>>>          >>         to vent,
>>>>          >>                                        Modern Warfare 2
>>>>       
>>> on
>>>     
>>>>         the PC
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>>       
>>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>>     
>>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>>       
>>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>>       
>>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>>     
>>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>>       
>>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>>       
>>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>>     
>>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>>       
>>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>>       
>>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>>     
>>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>>       
>>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                        fake?
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                        Richard GrosJean
>>>>       
>>> wrote:
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                            120k
>>>>       
>>> signatures
>>>     
>>>>         to go until it
>>>>          >>                                            reaches the
>>>>       
>>> famed
>>>     
>>>>         Starcraft
>>>>          >>         2 LAN
>>>>          >>                                            petition
>>>>          >>                                            status.
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                            On Tue, Oct
>>>>       
>>> 20,
>>>     
>>>>         2009 at
>>>>          >>         8:21 AM,
>>>>          >>                                            Mavrick Master
>>>>          >>
>>>>          <mavrick.master at gmail.com <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>>>
>>>>          >>                                            wrote:
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                            84884 Total
>>>>         Signatures and
>>>>          >>         counting...
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                            **grabs
>>>>       
>>> another
>>>     
>>>>         popcorn**
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>       
>>> -----------
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                                            cod mailing
>>>>       
>>> list
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>       
>>> cod at icculus.org
>>>     
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                                        cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                                        cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                                        cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                                        cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                                    cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                                    cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                                cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                                cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>       
>>> -------------------
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                No virus found in this
>>>>         incoming message.
>>>>          >>                                Checked by AVG -
>>>>       
>>> www.avg.com
>>>     
>>>>         <http://www.avg.com/>
>>>>          >>         <http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>>>         <http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                                Version: 8.5.422 / Virus
>>>>         Database:
>>>>          >>                                270.14.23/2448 - Release
>>>>       
>>> Date:
>>>     
>>>>          >>                                10/20/09 10:43:00
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                                cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                                cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                            cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                            cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                        cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                        cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>       
>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>                    cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                    cod at icculus.org
>>>>       
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>     
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>       
>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>       
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>     
>>>>          >>                cod mailing list
>>>>          >>                cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>                http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>       
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>     
>>>>          >>            cod mailing list
>>>>          >>            cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>       
>>> -------------------
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>          >>            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>         <http://www.avg.com/> <http://www.avg.com
>>>>       
>>> <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>>     
>>>>          >>         <http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database:
>>>>       
>>> 270.14.23/2448
>>>     
>>>>         - Release
>>>>          >>         Date:
>>>>          >>            10/20/09 10:43:00
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>       
>>> _______________________________________________
>>>     
>>>>          >>            cod mailing list
>>>>          >>            cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>            http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>       
>>> -----------
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>         _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>         cod mailing list
>>>>          >>         cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>         http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>     _______________________________________________
>>>>          >>     cod mailing list
>>>>          >>     cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>>          >>     http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >> --
>>>>          >> No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness
>>>>       
>>> has
>>>     
>>>>         always got
>>>>          >> there first, and is waiting for it. -- (Terry Pratchett,
>>>>         Reaper Man)
>>>>          >>
>>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>       
>>> -----------
>>>     
>>>>          >>
>>>>          >> _______________________________________________
>>>>          >> cod mailing list
>>>>          >> cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          >> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >>
>>>>          > _______________________________________________
>>>>          > cod mailing list
>>>>          > cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>          > http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>          >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>         --
>>>>         Josh Luthman
>>>>
>>>>         A patch in time saves kill -9
>>>>         -http://www.tuxmaniac.com <http://www.tuxmaniac.com/>
>>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>>         cod mailing list
>>>>         cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>>         http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>     -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>       
>>> -------
>>>     
>>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>>     cod mailing list
>>>>     cod at icculus.org
>>>>     http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>       
>>> ---
>>>     
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> cod mailing list
>>>> cod at icculus.org
>>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>>       
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cod mailing list
>>> cod at icculus.org
>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>     
>> _______________________________________________
>> cod mailing list
>> cod at icculus.org
>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>
>>   
> 
> _______________________________________________
> cod mailing list
> cod at icculus.org
> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
> _______________________________________________
> cod mailing list
> cod at icculus.org
> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
> 


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