[cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the PC
Mavrick
mavrick.master at gmail.com
Wed Oct 21 03:28:12 EDT 2009
Let's try and get DICE on a webcast with Joker and RudeDog? See if they
would be willing to back a community built FPS, for FPS Players by FPS
players?
The latest post by 402 doesn't tell us anything more than what we
already know imo. "Questions, assumptions, and speculation I intend to
dispel." He really knows how to put his foot in his mouth.
I would be willing to throw the $100 i didn't spend on COD6 to a
community built FPS for sure!
Andre Lorbach wrote:
> I didn't like the expensive ranked system either, but aAt least BF2 had an
> the option to run your own "unranked" dedicated servers.
>
> --
> regards,
> Andre
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: escapedturkey [mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com]
>> Sent: Dienstag, 20. Oktober 2009 21:41
>> To: Call of Duty server admin list.
>> Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the PC
>>
>> Not a fan of the ranked server system that BF2 had. It was very hurtful
>> to the mod scene. Ranked servers costed more and were restricted to FTP
>> access. Hopefully DICE doesn't do the whole ranked server system again.
>>
>> RaBBiT wrote:
>>
>>> I've always wanted to move to Valve, but only the real COD community
>>>
>> can
>>
>>> make a real source mod that feels like a cod game.
>>> Btw a PC game like cod or coduo...
>>> Time will tell, i'll be glad to map on that project.
>>> Otherwise DICE might make the GOTY on PC with BFBC2.
>>>
>>> PS: What about Treyarch? will they screw things up next year?
>>>
>>> Rabbit
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Seth Sauls <mailto:wizz220 at gmail.com>
>>> *To:* Call of Duty server admin list. <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:27 PM
>>> *Subject:* Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the
>>>
>> PC
>>
>>> I say that a group of community modders and mappers gets together
>>> and starts a "source" mod. Call it MW2:Source or something like
>>>
>> that.
>>
>>> Make it badass and build it off the source engine. Make the maps
>>> exactly like in MW2, models and all. Then for a map pack make
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> stock cod4 maps/models and so on.
>>>
>>> What do you all say....
>>>
>>> Wizz
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Josh Luthman <iam8up at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:iam8up at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Did anyone think that maybe they're trying to take away Halo
>>>
>> 3
>>
>>> players?
>>>
>>> On 10/20/09, Lars Vik <lars at 3056.net <mailto:lars at 3056.net>>
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> > Hi,
>>> >
>>> > I have both xbox 360 and PS3, but use the consoles mainly
>>>
>> for
>>
>>> ...well...
>>> > console games. Like racing games, Rockband etc. But is it
>>>
>> really
>>
>>> > possible to play FPS on console? I have tried misc FPS
>>>
>> demos
>>
>>> and so on,
>>> > but I find it hopeless. Clearly, if the majority of CoD
>>> players are on
>>> > console, i must have missed something? I.e. can you get
>>> keyboard/mouse
>>> > to xbox 360? They aren't seriously using the hand
>>> controller/joystick?
>>> >
>>> > I am also a bit surprised IW are selling more of a FPS
>>>
>> game
>>
>>> to console
>>> > than to PC. I can't help but thing that I am getting old
>>>
>> or
>>
>>> something
>>> > like that. That I am out of the loop so to speak.
>>> >
>>> > Hmmm....
>>> >
>>> > John Kennington wrote:
>>> >> There was a group of modders that tried that and
>>>
>> succeeded,
>>
>>> somewhat.
>>> >> Red Oktober is a mod and is a decent game, however it is
>>>
>> far to
>>
>>> >> realistic for the casual player.
>>> >>
>>> >> John
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 2:49 PM, escapedturkey
>>> >> <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Tough to say. I think the mod community, if combining
>>> forces, can
>>> >> make any game engine or mod run better, faster, and
>>>
>> more
>>
>>> fun.
>>> >> Faith in the community. For open-source, my vote goes
>>>
>> to:
>>
>>> >> http://xreal-project.net <http://xreal-project.net/>
>>>
>> --
>>
>>> based on IOQuake3.
>>> >>
>>> >> However, even IOQuake3 will do:
>>> >>
>>> >> http://ioquake3.org <http://ioquake3.org/>
>>> >>
>>> >> Enuff of my rambling ...
>>> >>
>>> >> Martin H wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Problem with the source engine is its not so good
>>>
>> at
>>
>>> making a
>>> >> game like CoD, of all the mods i've played to
>>>
>> date
>>
>>> the only
>>> >> one that had potential imo was Insurgency. Which
>>> although fun,
>>> >> didnt come close to the gameplay of CoD
>>> >>
>>> >> I just dont think the source engine is cut out
>>>
>> for a
>>
>>> game like
>>> >> cod. come to think of it though, i cant think of
>>> anything that
>>> >> is...
>>> >>
>>> >> One of the gripes i have with the system they
>>>
>> intend
>>
>>> on using
>>> >> is, if the matchmaking system always puts you
>>> against people
>>> >> at your skill level, how is a player meant to
>>> progress? i've
>>> >> always found the best way to improve is to be
>>> subjected to
>>> >> repeated raping. If IWNet dumps you with players
>>>
>> on your
>>
>>> >> level, you just wont improve.
>>> >>
>>> >> It says its done on "skill level". How is a skill
>>>
>> level
>>
>>> >> determined? Average KD ratio? if thats the case,
>>> players will
>>> >> be flying up and down the skill rankings every
>>>
>> time
>>
>>> they have
>>> >> a bad/good day. If a player is doing particularly
>>> well on a
>>> >> certain day, their KD ratio would increase. But
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> next day,
>>> >> if they're back to 'normal' levels, they'll be
>>>
>> way
>>
>>> out of
>>> >> their depth. Or vice versa. quite easy to have a
>>>
>> bad
>>
>>> day, and
>>> >> then find yourself on a server with people way
>>>
>> below
>>
>>> your
>>> >> actual skill rating.
>>> >>
>>> >> "The biggest benefit of using IWnet by far is the
>>> fact that
>>> >> you don't have to worry about joining a server
>>>
>> full of
>>
>>> >> aim-bots, wallhacks, or cheaters. Or relying on
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> server
>>> >> admin of the server to constantly be monitoring,
>>> banning, and
>>> >> policing it."
>>> >>
>>> >> Yeah, thats great until theres an admin that isnt
>>> 100% clued
>>> >> up on banning people, and theres a guy on the
>>>
>> server
>>
>>> who's
>>> >> name is changing every two seconds. Its going to
>>>
>> be no
>>
>>> >> different than a CoD4 server in reality.
>>> >>
>>> >> Surely the better way to get rid of cheating
>>>
>> would
>>
>>> be to seal
>>> >> up all the holes that allow these hacks to be
>>> created in the
>>> >> first place?
>>> >>
>>> >> 2009/10/20 Joker{eXtreme+}
>>>
>> <joker at mycallofduty.com
>>
>>> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>
>>> >> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>>
>>>
>> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>
>>> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>
>>> >> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Another post by Bowling
>>> >> http://www.fourzerotwo.com/?p=745
>>> >>
>>> >> ~Joker
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message ----- From:
>>>
>> "escapedturkey"
>>
>>> >> <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> To: "Call of Duty server admin list."
>>> <cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:06 AM
>>> >>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern
>>> Warfare 2 on
>>> >> the PC
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Best thing to do is start with the mod makers
>>>
>> in
>>
>>> that first
>>> >> interview.
>>> >> Have them get together with a single purpose
>>> "make or mod an
>>> >> alternative".
>>> >>
>>> >> Valve offers great support:
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>>>
>> http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Building_Mods_with_Valve_Techno
>> logy
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> :)
>>> >>
>>> >> Bong-Master wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> broken record Lmfto no just a long record
>>>
>> lol
>>
>>> any how,
>>> >> how &
>>> >> were do you
>>> >> start ?
>>> >>
>>> --------------------------------------------------
>>> >> From: "escapedturkey"
>>> <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:55 PM
>>> >> To: "Call of Duty server admin list."
>>> <cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent,
>>>
>> Modern
>>
>>> Warfare 2
>>> >> on the PC
>>> >>
>>> >> Exactly. I don't see why this can't be
>>> done via the
>>> >> Source
>>> >> engine or
>>> >> other means. All the weapons, game
>>>
>> play,
>>
>>> and such
>>> >> can be
>>> >> replicated.
>>> >>
>>> >> Valve shows a lot of support, has VAC,
>>> dedicated Linux
>>> >> binares, etc.
>>> >>
>>> >> Anyhow, I am sounding like a broken
>>> record. :)
>>> >>
>>> >> Hannu Kumpeli wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Lets put the money together from
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> 100,000+
>>> >> signatures
>>> >> and let some
>>> >> company make us the game we want
>>>
>> with
>>
>>> DEDI
>>> >> SUPPORT :D
>>> >>
>>> >> Let's go open-source or Source
>>> engine! :)
>>> >>
>>> >> As I listened to the interview
>>> most of the
>>> >> people
>>> >> talking were
>>> >> modders. Can't they all come
>>> together and do a
>>> >> Source mod or open
>>> >> source project?
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm sure a Source engine mod
>>> would work
>>> >> quite well.
>>> >>
>>> >> Source and open-source aren't
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> same, for
>>> >> anyone
>>> >> confused. :)
>>> >>
>>> >> Joker{eXtreme+} wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Confirmation that they are
>>> still NOT
>>> >> going to
>>> >> put in Dedi Server
>>> >> support.
>>> >>
>>> >> I'm done. Thank you all
>>>
>> and
>>
>>> have a
>>> >> good life.
>>> >>
>>> >> ~Joker
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message ---
>>>
>> --
>>
>>> From:
>>> >> "Einar S. Idsø"
>>> >> <einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>> <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>
>>> >> <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>> <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>>
>>> >>
>>> <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>> <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>
>>> >> <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>> <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> To: "Call of Duty server
>>> admin list."
>>> >> <cod at icculus.org
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Sent: Tuesday, October 20,
>>> 2009 10:32 AM
>>> >> Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry
>>>
>> have
>>
>>> to vent,
>>> >> Modern
>>> >> Warfare 2 on the PC
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Just out: Official
>>>
>> Infinity Ward
>>
>>> >> response to
>>> >> #MW2 PC players
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/10/20/modern-
>>>
>> warfare-2-dedicated-server-response.aspx
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> Cheers,
>>> >> Einar
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at
>>>
>> 3:12 PM,
>>
>>> >> escapedturkey
>>> >>
>>> <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>> >>
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>> >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Wouldn't it best to
>>>
>> offer
>>
>>> both?
>>> >>
>>> >> IW.net and dedicated
>>> servers as an
>>> >> option?
>>> >>
>>> >> That way they can see
>>>
>> by
>>
>>> the statistics
>>> >> which is the preferred
>>> >> mode of game
>>> >> play.
>>> >>
>>> >> Schlup wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Yes fake, was
>>>
>> there
>>
>>> really any
>>> >> doubt?
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original
>>> Message-----
>>> >> From: Mavrick
>>> >>
>>> >> [mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>> >>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>] Sent:
>>> >> Tuesday,
>>> >> October 20,
>>> >> 2009 7:42 AM
>>> >> To: Call of Duty
>>> server admin list.
>>> >> Subject: Re: [cod]
>>> Sorry have
>>> >> to vent,
>>> >> Modern Warfare 2
>>>
>> on
>>
>>> the PC
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>
>>> <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>
>>> <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>
>>> <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>
>>> <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> fake?
>>> >>
>>> >> Richard GrosJean
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> 120k
>>>
>> signatures
>>
>>> to go until it
>>> >> reaches the
>>>
>> famed
>>
>>> Starcraft
>>> >> 2 LAN
>>> >> petition
>>> >> status.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Oct
>>>
>> 20,
>>
>>> 2009 at
>>> >> 8:21 AM,
>>> >> Mavrick Master
>>> >>
>>> <mavrick.master at gmail.com <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>> >>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>> >>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>> >> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>> <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>>>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> 84884 Total
>>> Signatures and
>>> >> counting...
>>> >>
>>> >> **grabs
>>>
>> another
>>
>>> popcorn**
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>> -----------
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> cod mailing
>>>
>> list
>>
>>> >>
>>>
>> cod at icculus.org
>>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> cod mailing list
>>> >> cod at icculus.org
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> cod mailing list
>>> >> cod at icculus.org
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>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>> >>
>>> >>
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>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
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>>> >>
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>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> cod mailing list
>>> >> cod at icculus.org
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>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
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>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>> -------------------
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>>> >>
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>>> >> <http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>> >>
>>> >> Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database:
>>>
>> 270.14.23/2448
>>
>>> - Release
>>> >> Date:
>>> >> 10/20/09 10:43:00
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>>
>>> >> cod mailing list
>>> >> cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>> >> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>> >>
>>> >> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>> -----------
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> cod mailing list
>>> >> cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>> >> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> cod mailing list
>>> >> cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>> >> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness
>>>
>> has
>>
>>> always got
>>> >> there first, and is waiting for it. -- (Terry Pratchett,
>>> Reaper Man)
>>> >>
>>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>> -----------
>>
>>> >>
>>> >> _______________________________________________
>>> >> cod mailing list
>>> >> cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> >> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>> >>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > cod mailing list
>>> > cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> > http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Josh Luthman
>>>
>>> A patch in time saves kill -9
>>> -http://www.tuxmaniac.com <http://www.tuxmaniac.com/>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cod mailing list
>>> cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>> -------
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cod mailing list
>>> cod at icculus.org
>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>> ---
>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cod mailing list
>>> cod at icculus.org
>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> cod mailing list
>> cod at icculus.org
>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>
> _______________________________________________
> cod mailing list
> cod at icculus.org
> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>
>
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