[Gtkradiant] 1.2.11 RC1 Bug #3

Tue, 3 Dec 2002 16:33:39 -0000

Complete agreement - refactoring sounds good.. (maybe leave in the old
scheme as an option if possible). If we're going for new features too, I
fancy throwing in maya's manipulators for Translate/Rotate/Scale modes.
I think it would make things easier if we put the control scheme into a file
somewhere (woo data-driven) which would be an extension of shortcuts.ini. A
lot of commands are still hardcoded deep inside the core somewhere..
The first step towards doing this would be to go through and enumerate every
single command possible along with the
mousebutton/modifier-keys/mode/cursor-location used to invoke the command.

-SPoG

-----Original Message-----
From: ydnar [mailto:ydnar@shaderlab.com]
Sent: 01 December 2002 17:41
To: gtkradiant@zerowing.idsoftware.com
Subject: Re: [Gtkradiant] 1.2.11 RC1 Bug #3

Cliff notes:

The current ctrl/shift/alt/rmb/lmb/middle/wtf is a clusterfuck. Sure, it's a
clusterfuck we all know (sorta, unless Arnout changes it again ;) but it's
badly in need of an overhaul, or at least a well-thought out refactoring.

I propose we steal Photoshop's toolbox for Radiant. Separate the selection
tool from the move/reshape tool. Move the clipper to full 'tool' status.
Alter the toolbar so differentiate between icons that are verbs (open, save,
undo), nouns (clipper tool, vertex manip), and adverbs (axis constrain,
show/hide patch bbox, etc).

Photoshop is an ideal model for study because it manages to distill an
incredible amount of usability into a small toolbox and set of keyboard
modifiers & mnemonics.

Thoughts?

y

Cryptonomicon ed.:

Perhaps it's time to look at alternatives to having a single unified
select/drag/reshape tool, with mode selected based on arbitrary combinations
of modifier keys and various & sundry mouse clicks.

I.E. inject some sanity into the situation.

People older and wiser than us have solved this problem quite neatly before.
The seminal example being MacPaint (http://www.mac512.com/macpaint.htm), and
reaching its ultimate conclusion with Adobe Photoshop, and perhaps more
appropriately, its sibling, Illustrator.

For the sake of this email, I'll limit the discussion to Photoshop, though
many of the same mnemonics apply to Illustrator. Also, my dear readers, you
are more likely to have a copy of PS than Ill.

Photoshop's selection manipulation tools are broken down into 2 categories:
Tools that modify the state of the selection, and tools that modify the
selection itself. Those of you familiar with certain other programs
(Lightwave, Maya) know they operate with a similar principle.

Photoshop's primary selection tool is the marquee, signified by a dashed
rectangle. It is inherited from Photoshop's ancestor, MacPaint, albeit with
one important addition: CSG, or for the more mathematically inclined,
Boolean operations.

The marquee operates via click-drag-release. With no keys held down, a
click-drag-release of the marquee selects a rectangular area of the image,
and ONLY that rectangular area defined by your click-drag.

However, if you hold down the SHIFT key, the previous selection is NOT
cleared, but rather ADDED to. This is essentially a Boolean/CSG add
operation.

In a similar vein, if the ALT key is held down before commencing said
click-drag, the new selection area is SUBTRACTED from the overall selection.

If SHIFT and ALT are held down simultaneously, then the resulting selection
is a Boolean AND of the original and new selections.

3 simple key combinations that work across all selection tools (marquee,
lasso, magic wand, et cetera).

If a selection tool is active, the user can hold down CTRL causing the
active tool to be ghosted to the move/translate tool. This, along with the
selection CSG modifier keys, constitute 90% of a user's primary
selection/image modification in Photoshop. The user never has to manually go
to the toolbox or move his/her and away from the lower-left quadrant of
their keyboard.

But the option is there--the toolbox, with every major tool/mode in
Photoshop, available for newbie-friendly clicking.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Hydra" <hydra@hydras-world.com>
To: <gtkradiant@zerowing.idsoftware.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 8:57 AM
Subject: Re: [Gtkradiant] 1.2.11 RC1 Bug #3

> yeah i know, but i often want to move lots of things and using those
buttons
> isn't anywhere near as convenient as using shift.
>
> The whole point of Radiant is that it's supposed it be an efficient
> streamlined editor.  Well, it just got less efficient IMO.
>
> Hydra
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arnout 'RR2DO2' van Meer" <rr2do2@splashdamage.com>
> To: <gtkradiant@zerowing.idsoftware.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 4:20 PM
> Subject: RE: [Gtkradiant] 1.2.11 RC1 Bug #3
>
>
> You got the X Y and Z lock buttons as well
>
> - Arnout
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hydra [mailto:hydra@hydras-world.com]
> Sent: 01 December 2002 16:15
> To: gtkradiant@zerowing.idsoftware.com
> Subject: Re: [Gtkradiant] 1.2.11 RC1 Bug #3
>
>
> well god damn it..
>
> That feature was really useful when developing symetrical areas in maps.
>
> I'd been wanting the feature for ages, then I'm told it already did it,
> so I start using it and it does just what I want.  And now it's taken
> out with no warning at all.
>
> Can we see about getting both features in?
>
> Hydra
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Arnout 'RR2DO2' van Meer" <rr2do2@splashdamage.com>
> To: <gtkradiant@zerowing.idsoftware.com>
> Sent: Sunday, December 01, 2002 3:53 PM
> Subject: RE: [Gtkradiant] 1.2.11 RC1 Bug #3
>
>
> Not a 'bug'. Reason for this not working anymore is because paint select
> uses shift+drag in the camwindow.
>
> - Arnout
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hydra [mailto:hydra@hydras-world.com]
> Sent: 01 December 2002 02:45
> To: gtkradiant@zerowing.idsoftware.com
> Subject: [Gtkradiant] 1.2.11 RC1 Bug #3
>
>
> Looks like I picked just the right time to do some mapping, so far I've
> found three bugs today, anyway here's number #3:
>
> Not entered this as a bug report yet... but.
>
> I was recently informed of a feature where you select some brushes then
> drag them around and after you've started to drag them around press and
> hold shift the selection then locks the axis so that when you drag more
> it aligns the selection to the closest axis.
>
> I'd got rather used to this and it's a very useful feature, but in
> 1.2.11 RC1 this now appears to be broken.
>
> Can someone confirm and then let me know whether I should enter this as
> a bug.  Of course, you can enter it as a bug yourself too...
>
> Hydra
>
>
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