On Tue, 2004-11-09 at 09:05, xxx wrote: > that's sad.... > do you have any patriotic blood in you at all? Hey, I haven't asked if you have homicidal tendencies based on your view of military action. Let's not sit here and fling poo at each other. Look. Let me tell you a story. One time I observed a 5th grade class, not long after the September 11th attacks. I sat in the back of the room (suit and tie and all) and watched Mr Levy, the teacher, cover The War of 1812. The children were all horrified to learn that the British actually burned down the White House during the war, a fact that seems to get glossed over in a lot of history classes, and someone makes the corollation to the World Trade Center, which actually might have still been burning at this point. Overwhelmed, America signs a treaty with the British to stop the war. After this, Andrew Jackson goes on to slaughter 2,000 British troops two weeks after the treaty was signed ("The Biggest Whoops in American History", as Mr. Levy calls it.), effectively ending the land war physically after it was over politically. One kid, Kevin, raises his hand and asks, "So wait...we were losing the war, and we signed a treaty to end the war, but we killed all the British anyhow. So did we win or not?" "'We' being America? Kinda, not really, I mean no one really won, since there was a treaty signed, but I guess technically you could say so." The class literally cheers that America "won". Now, I ask you, are the 5th graders being patriotic? Or is the question of who wins a war, and at what cost, just basically absurd? --ryan.