[ut3] [UT3] Linux-Client

[Lloyd Taylor]

Breakdown by date of all Ryan has posted on (or near) the subject to this list.
For those so inclined, read to your heart's content:

http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?64

10/14/07:

> We are waiting for Linux client, but it 'ill be only available with the 
> Windows client (on the box), no ?

It won't be in the box this time (sorry, this is a deadline problem, not 
a political decision), but we'll make sure there's a downloadable Linux 
installer that works with the retail Windows disc. If there's a later 
print run, we'll see about adding the Linux installer to it.

The Mac version will have its own retail disc/box separate from the 
Windows one, like UT99/UT2003/UT2004 worked as well.

> Is the client optimised fpr dual core cpu ?

Yes, on all platforms, it will take advantage of multicore systems.

--ryan.

10/14/07:

Thomas Kowaliczek wrote:
> Will it give an 64 Bit Linux version? like ut2004 ?

No plans to do this at this time (but if I ever get a free moment, I'll 
look into it...I have a feeling that a lot of middleware is going to be 
problematic this time around, though).

--ryan.

10/16/07:

> is, are we going to see a Linux client when UT3 is released

yes.

> and will it be in the box when one buy the game

no.

> Demo? why havn't that been releashed for Linux?

because it's not ready.

--ryan.

10/16/07:

> Ryan, should we be looking at buying the Windows version now in 
> preparation for the installer, or should we sit tight and hope(!) for a 
> retail Linux box ?

I don't think there will be a retail Linux box. If anything, some print 
run may add the installer to the disc, but it's not something to wait for.

There will definitely NOT be a Linux-only package, like the Loki and LGP 
titles had. If you want the game, buy the Windows disc.

The Mac version WILL be it's own box and disc, though, as it has it's 
own publisher (MacSoft), and will not be available for downloadable use 
with the Windows disc.

--ryan.

10/25/07:

> ...and how truly sad that is too.  It's obvious that Linux users FAR out
> weigh the Mac users.....but yet we have to wait.  Atta boy there Epic,
> keep up the bang up job!

You know, if there's one thing that really pisses me off, it's this 
attitude.

Epic has delivered for Linux customers, game after game and year after 
year, and always above the expectations that are put on any other company.

The Linux client is important, it's being worked on, and it will ship 
when it's ready.

You can feel free to go subscribe to one of Valve's mailing lists if you 
want to piss and moan about Linux and Mac support.

Bang up job, indeed.

--ryan.

10/26/07:

> some time later. i can hardly imagine there would be a ppc build or
> anything else... (Even if you install linux on an 'old' ppc mac, you
> still have this gfx driver problem)

We definitely won't do a Linux PPC build, but we haven't ruled out doing 
a PPC Mac version. Probably won't ship on Day One in any case.

Same story for amd64/linux.

--ryan.

10/26/07:

> What on earth makes you think there are FAR more Linux gamers than  
> there are Mac gamers?

There were, at least for UT2004.

I would speculate that this was due to several factors:

- a free OS that runs on commodity hardware all over the planet, instead 
of requiring premium-cost hardware and maybe a 125 dollar OS update.
- readily available copies of the game at clearance prices (buy the 
Windows/Linux disc wherever games are sold...but it's still 39.99 USD at 
Apple Retail stores and the rare places that sell Mac games right this 
very minute!).
- A lack of high-end video cards for the Mac (and a good portion of the 
available systems being unable to upgrade video hardware anyway) when 
the game was still new and hot.

Taking that into account, it's not surprising that there were twice as 
many people playing on Linux.

--ryan.

12/17/07:

I'm going to answer a few emails here, but I haven't got anything to 
announce at the moment. I also haven't read most of this mailing list in 
the past week or so; I don't need to be reminded that people are still 
waiting for Linux binaries. You'll get them as soon as possible, honest.

> Questions:

(I don't speak for Epic, and have no real insight into why technical 
decisions were made. But here are my best insights.)

> Why did Epic choose GameSpy this time?

My guesses would be a) because the master server was a huge pain from 
ut2003 onward (and maybe as far back as Unreal 1), and b) GameSpy gives 
them cross-platform tech roughly analogous to Xbox Live or Games For 
Windows Live.

This is about more than just getting a list of servers. There's a lot 
more competition for a baseline feature set nowadays. The fact that 
Valve added "achievements" to the Steam version of The Orange Box titles 
suggests that this competition is only going to get more fierce. If I 
were you, I'd go figure out who the major competitors are, and get the 
login name you like on their services before someone else takes it.   :)

> Why did Epic choose Bink for videos? (Even the load screens!)

Almost every game you'll see on a console uses a prerendered movie for 
load screens (including static copyright text, like ut3 does).

Partially because it's quick to throw in contractually-obligated logos: 
usually there's a prebuilt movie from these companies they just have to 
convert to Bink. Also, it's probably easier to put a movie together in a 
movie making tool, than make the equivalent set of pixels light up in 
the engine...especially since, say, Intel Corporation doesn't keep 
people with UE3 mapmaking experience around to make logos.

Also, rendering a movie is dirt cheap from a CPU viewpoint; lots of 
games show them because Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo won't certify your game 
if the load time is more than X seconds...but the stopwatch doesn't 
start until all the logos are displayed. Many games show the movies on 
one thread, and then use this extra time to load the game on another. I 
don't know if UT3 does this, but lots and lots of Unreal licensees have 
done just that.

Also, darn near every UE2 licensee tends to license Bink, and uses the 
same piece of third-party code off the Unreal Developer Network to 
integrate it, so it probably made sense to just do the integration in 
the official UE3 codebase, since Epic would still get bug reports from 
it anyhow.

> As for PhysX I won't comment.

It's amazing to me how much hatred there is towards Ageia...I wonder if 
that's just spillover from ut200x's MathEngine contracts.

Then again, there's a lot of hate towards every piece of middleware, 
depending on what a given forum's personal conspiracy theory is. Someone 
posted a petition on this mailing list about removing GameSpy. You don't 
have to _like_ GameSpy, and I've certainly had my problems with them in 
the past, but I don't think it's fair to play Kangaroo Court with them 
when there's really no actual evidence that they are the problem.

Likewise for Ageia.

Likewise for Bink.

> Lots of other routine middleware floating around in there too probably.

I have no doubt that people will compare the final binaries with the
beta demo server for differences. It'll be interesting to see if the 
incorrect parties will amend their petitions and apologize to those they 
slandered.

--ryan.

12/17/07:

> and you'd like to back that up with...?

The master server reports from ut2004 had more than 1% Linux clients. 
Same was true for Mac OS X.

Granted, Windows players were an overwhelming majority, but I would call 
the statistics for alternate platforms significant, if not large.

--ryan.

1/11/08:

> +1 for polite request for update.

Indeed; I do appreciate the politeness!

I've adopted a policy of not discussing releases before they ship, 
though, as it seems to get me in trouble. I will definitely tell you 
guys first when there's something to tell.

--ryan.

"David L. Willson" <DLWillson at TheGeek.NU> wrote: Bernhard,

Please quote and give the date of the last such statement.

--David




       
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