From liquid.acid at gmx.net Wed Jul 9 09:12:57 2008 From: liquid.acid at gmx.net (Tobias Jakobi) Date: Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:12:57 +0200 Subject: [ssam] Serious Sam: The First Encounter - Linux Vs. Windows In-Reply-To: <4866E903.7070900@icculus.org> References: <72ad02a80806272309l1ece56d9y9d913e4e2be3aa92@mail.gmail.com> <48669D81.4000005@icculus.org> <4866AAE1.9030801@gmx.net> <4866E903.7070900@icculus.org> Message-ID: <4874B959.9030400@gmx.net> Ryan C. Gordon wrote: > >> On the other hand when a linux user is hosting the server through wine >> the linux clients can connect, but not the windows clients. Maybe this >> is not only related to wine's network code emulating windows >> behaviour, but probably the problem lies deeper (since you mention >> floating point matching; recently a D3D bug was fixed that had to do >> with FP math: http://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=13225 - this one >> came to my mind when I read your post). > > Without research, I'd guess that Wine doesn't change the FPU precision > (which DirectX does by default behind the scenes). But I could be wrong. > > It was a terrible, inexcusable design decision on Microsoft's part, and > has caused everyone trouble: Windows developers, Linux people, Wine > people... > > The Sacrifice bug report is possibly related, but it's hard to say. > Precision issues are nasty. > > As far as Serious Sam goes: basically, one machine adds two numbers and > comes up with 0.385419, the other comes up with 0.385420, and it's fine > for game play, but since it's not a perfect match, the game thinks you > have incompatible data and refuses to connect. It's not an FPU precision > setting, or a bug in gcc...if you shuffle around the order that the math > instructions run, you'll get a different result, so even a Debug and > Release build of the Windows version probably became incompatible with > each other. > > There was discussion of ways to fix this with Croteam, many years ago, > but they were already done with Serious Engine 1 when we got to that > point, and didn't want to patch the Windows client to fix it. > > My guess is that Wine, vmware, the Linux port, and probably the official > win32 binaries on some yet-unannounced version of Windows will all have > this problem. It's not a bug in Wine, it's just a bug that never bit > Croteam on Windows. > > --ryan. > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to ssam-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?29 > > Hi Ryan, thanks for you explanation. Can I attach our conversation to the wine bugtracker? I hope someone with insight into the way wine handles changes to the FPU sees a way to fix this problem. Greets, Tobias Jakobi From Pavel.Zlebek at hella.com Wed Jul 9 10:01:47 2008 From: Pavel.Zlebek at hella.com (Pavel.Zlebek at hella.com) Date: Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:01:47 +0200 Subject: Pavel Zlebek mimo =?ISO-8859-2?Q?kancel=E1=F8_?= Message-ID: Mimo kancel?? budu od 05.07.2008 a nevr?t?m se do 10.07.2008. I will respond your message after my return. From icculus at icculus.org Thu Jul 10 14:51:00 2008 From: icculus at icculus.org (Ryan C. Gordon) Date: Thu, 10 Jul 2008 14:51:00 -0400 Subject: [ssam] Serious Sam: The First Encounter - Linux Vs. Windows In-Reply-To: <4874B959.9030400@gmx.net> References: <72ad02a80806272309l1ece56d9y9d913e4e2be3aa92@mail.gmail.com> <48669D81.4000005@icculus.org> <4866AAE1.9030801@gmx.net> <4866E903.7070900@icculus.org> <4874B959.9030400@gmx.net> Message-ID: <48765A14.7020707@icculus.org> > thanks for you explanation. Can I attach our conversation to the wine > bugtracker? Go ahead. --ryan.