From relic2k at canada.com Thu Oct 16 17:40:12 2003 From: relic2k at canada.com (Relic2K) Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 17:40:12 -0400 Subject: Status on SS:TSE ?? Message-ID: <20031016174012.619dd4ea.relic2k@canada.com> Hey All; Any word on when we will be able to finally play on the Win32 Servers ?? I realize that everyone has their hands full lately. It would be nice to finally do some major ass kicking online vice searching for Linux servers. -- Relic2K Virginia Beach, VA E-Mail:relic2k at canada.com Reg Linux User: 223221 Subscribed WineX Member From ashridah at icculus.org Thu Oct 16 20:19:00 2003 From: ashridah at icculus.org (Andrew Pilley) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:19:00 +1000 Subject: [ssam] Status on SS:TSE ?? In-Reply-To: <20031016174012.619dd4ea.relic2k@canada.com> References: <20031016174012.619dd4ea.relic2k@canada.com> Message-ID: <1066349940.3761.1.camel@mycrondo.mycronite> On Fri, 2003-10-17 at 07:40, Relic2K wrote: > Hey All; > Any word on when we will be able to finally play on the Win32 Servers ?? I realize that everyone has their hands full lately. It would be nice to finally do some major ass kicking online vice searching for Linux servers. Actually, last i heard, you'd have to convince croteam to release a patch to clean up their network protocol. afaik, they haven't done so (at least for ssamtfe, but i'm pretty sure there's similar bugs in the network protocol for ssamtse as well). Without that, there's not a whole lot anyone can do to fix the linux version. ashridah -- I hereby pose this question for analysis. Are Microsoft users smarter than hamsters? *Bluescreen* Reboot *Bluescreen* Reboot *Bluescreen* Reboot Hamsters 1, Users 0. From sta173 at astradyne.co.uk Fri Oct 17 18:03:47 2003 From: sta173 at astradyne.co.uk (Tet) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:03:47 +0100 Subject: [ssam] Status on SS:TSE ?? In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 17 Oct 2003 10:19:00 +1000." <1066349940.3761.1.camel@mycrondo.mycronite> Message-ID: Andrew Pilley writes: >Actually, last i heard, you'd have to convince croteam to release a >patch to clean up their network protocol. afaik, they haven't done so >(at least for ssamtfe, but i'm pretty sure there's similar bugs in the >network protocol for ssamtse as well). Rubbish. They have an existing network protocol that works. The Linux version could be modified to use the same protocol, and hence the two would be network compatible. The fact that they're not probably means that the code that puts the bits on the wire made some assumptions that hold true on Windows but not on Linux. Doing a direct port will mean the two aren't compatible. With a little more effort, that piece of code could be rewritten to support the same protocol as on Windows. But Ryan's already said he's unlikely to have time to do any more with the Serious Sam ports. More's the pity. Still, I'm grateful for the work he has done. >Without that, there's not a whole lot anyone can do to fix the linux >version. There's not a lot *anyone* except Ryan can do, since none of us have the source code! Short of writing a proxy to convert between the two network protocols... Tet From icculus at clutteredmind.org Sat Oct 18 20:47:01 2003 From: icculus at clutteredmind.org (Ryan C. Gordon) Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:47:01 -0400 Subject: [ssam] Status on SS:TSE ?? In-Reply-To: <20031017221305.13808.qmail@icculus.org> References: <20031017221305.13808.qmail@icculus.org> Message-ID: <3F91DF05.6020400@clutteredmind.org> > Rubbish. They have an existing network protocol that works. The Linux It's not rubbish. The existing protocol does checksums of various data, including floating point numbers, which don't have the same precision on Linux and Windows...the numbers come out differently depending on several factors (what DirectX set the precision control word to on Windows, the order of opcodes in the instruction stream, etc...) GCC and Visual C will never precisely hit the same precision for any given calculation, since they don't generate identical code for any given C expression. This is true between Debug and Release builds from Visual C, too. This isn't generally a problem, because packet by packet, the average shooter doesn't care about the precision of a floating point number down to the least significant decimal point, but when you look at it as a block of bits, it makes a huge difference. If the checksum was totally disabled, then the Linux and Windows clients can talk fine...sadly, this isn't an option without a new Windows build. > There's not a lot *anyone* except Ryan can do, since none of us have > the source code! Short of writing a proxy to convert between the two > network protocols... Same protocol, different results for crucial calculations...there's not a lot I can do, either. :( --ryan. From louvadeus at seriouszone.com Mon Oct 20 03:28:37 2003 From: louvadeus at seriouszone.com (John "Louva-Deus" Turner) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 01:28:37 -0600 Subject: References: Message-ID: <00bd01c396ea$f69c54e0$0100a8c0@scion> Maybe Serious Sam 2 will turn out to be more friendly for linux porting :) John "Louva-Deus" Turner http://www.seriouszone.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tet" To: Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 5:12 PM > -------- > Subject: Re: [ssam] Status on SS:TSE ?? > > "Ryan C. Gordon" writes: > > >It's not rubbish. The existing protocol does checksums of various data, > >including floating point numbers, which don't have the same precision on > >Linux and Windows... > > Arse. I guess it's still possible, but it would involve writing a new > floating point library with compatible precision. Which probably falls > into the realms of "not worth the effort". Oh well... > > Tet > > > From johan at vetteblei.dyndns.org Mon Oct 20 18:21:58 2003 From: johan at vetteblei.dyndns.org (Johan Schuring) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:21:58 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [ssam] Re: In-Reply-To: <00bd01c396ea$f69c54e0$0100a8c0@scion> References: <00bd01c396ea$f69c54e0$0100a8c0@scion> Message-ID: <33755.100.100.100.3.1066688518.squirrel@server-1.vetteblei.net> Hmmmmm, Serious Sam 2 is out for Linux and has the same problem... Johan > Maybe Serious Sam 2 will turn out to be more friendly for linux porting :) > > John "Louva-Deus" Turner > http://www.seriouszone.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tet" > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 5:12 PM > > >> -------- >> Subject: Re: [ssam] Status on SS:TSE ?? >> >> "Ryan C. Gordon" writes: >> >> >It's not rubbish. The existing protocol does checksums of various data, >> >including floating point numbers, which don't have the same precision >> on >> >Linux and Windows... >> >> Arse. I guess it's still possible, but it would involve writing a new >> floating point library with compatible precision. Which probably falls >> into the realms of "not worth the effort". Oh well... >> >> Tet >> >> >> > -- They say when you play a Microsoft CD backward you can hear satanic messages..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install Windows From ashridah at icculus.org Mon Oct 20 21:59:00 2003 From: ashridah at icculus.org (Andrew Pilley) Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 11:59:00 +1000 Subject: [ssam] Re: Message-ID: <1066701540.3f9492e4838f8@mail.icculus.org> Quoting Johan Schuring : > Hmmmmm, > > Serious Sam 2 is out for Linux and has the same problem... No, serious sam The Second Encounter is out for linux. That's not Serious Sam 2, however. easy to make that mistake tho, but afaik, there's definently an SS2 in the works. ashridah > > Johan > > > > Maybe Serious Sam 2 will turn out to be more friendly for linux porting :) > > > > John "Louva-Deus" Turner > > http://www.seriouszone.com > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tet" > > To: > > Sent: Sunday, October 19, 2003 5:12 PM > > > > > >> -------- > >> Subject: Re: [ssam] Status on SS:TSE ?? > >> > >> "Ryan C. Gordon" writes: > >> > >> >It's not rubbish. The existing protocol does checksums of various data, > >> >including floating point numbers, which don't have the same precision > >> on > >> >Linux and Windows... > >> > >> Arse. I guess it's still possible, but it would involve writing a new > >> floating point library with compatible precision. Which probably falls > >> into the realms of "not worth the effort". Oh well... > >> > >> Tet > >> > >> > >> > > > > > -- > They say when you play a Microsoft CD backward you can hear satanic > messages..... but that's nothing, if you play it forward it will install > Windows > -- "Outlook not so good" Wow. This magic eightball knows everything. Next I'll ask it about exchange! From louvadeus at seriouszone.com Mon Oct 20 21:56:51 2003 From: louvadeus at seriouszone.com (John "Louva-Deus" Turner) Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 19:56:51 -0600 Subject: [ssam] Re: References: <00bd01c396ea$f69c54e0$0100a8c0@scion> <33755.100.100.100.3.1066688518.squirrel@server-1.vetteblei.net> Message-ID: <039901c39777$6138f150$0100a8c0@scion> Serious Sam 2 is still at least a year away. You are talking about The Second Encounter which is just part 2 of the original game. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Johan Schuring" To: Sent: Monday, October 20, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ssam] Re: > Hmmmmm, > > Serious Sam 2 is out for Linux and has the same problem... > > Johan >