From thebenmachine at googlemail.com Sat May 3 15:37:54 2008 From: thebenmachine at googlemail.com (Ben Millwood) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 20:37:54 +0100 Subject: Vim syntax highlighting file for q3 config files Message-ID: Hi, I was editing some .cfg files in Vim and noticed that it tries to highlight them according to a series of rules that don't at all apply to q3's config files, except for comments. Especially annoying was the tendency to mess up cvars whose value strings contained an equals sign, and the treating of ; as a comment in vstr strings. I could turn off syntax highlighting altogether, but that was less than satisfactory. Not content with any of these options, I decided to create an altogether new syntax highlighting file exclusively for quake3 config files. It does the following: 1) Colours comments (// to end of line) according to your Comment rule (usually some shade of blue) 2) Colours common cfg commands (set[asu], bind, exec, vstr, and map) according to your Statement rule (usually yellow) 3) Highlights TODO and FIXME in comments and strings according to your Todo rule (yellow background, black text) 4) In strings, attempts to convert colour codes ^[0-8] until the next code or until a " to their appropriate colour It's the first such file I've ever written, and as yet I've found no way to have vim differentiate between the cfgs it expects and quake3 config files, so you pretty much have to choose one or the other (or, at the top of your config files place a line that reads "// vim: set filetype=q3cfg :" and configure for that filetype in your .vimrc). I also have no idea whether the colours that correlate on my screen also correlate on yours, so I apologise in advance if I cause you to claw out your own eyes in horror. The commands I chose to highlight are a bit arbitrary (mostly what I just stumbled upon in server.cfg and autoexec.cfg) and, as I comment in the file, might be generalisable. Another thing lacking is a nice highlighting of strings (I just don't know what to do with them) and non-quoted values (I don't even know how to match them). I'm sure this mailing list is composed almost entirely of people better than me at both vim and q3, so I welcome your comments and criticism. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: q3cfg.vim Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1829 bytes Desc: not available URL: From zachary at ioquake.org Sat May 3 16:02:34 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 13:02:34 -0700 Subject: [quake3] Vim syntax highlighting file for q3 config files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Very cool. I'd like to put this on ioquake3.org when you think it is ready. -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org From kamikaze at bsdforen.de Sat May 3 16:49:45 2008 From: kamikaze at bsdforen.de (Dominic Fandrey) Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 22:49:45 +0200 Subject: [quake3] Vim syntax highlighting file for q3 config files In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <481CCFE9.2040509@bsdforen.de> Zachary wrote: > Very cool. > I'd like to put this on ioquake3.org when you think it is ready. > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org How about sending it to the vim developer? From thebenmachine at googlemail.com Sat May 3 18:28:43 2008 From: thebenmachine at googlemail.com (Ben Millwood) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 23:28:43 +0100 Subject: [quake3] Vim syntax highlighting file for q3 config files In-Reply-To: <481CCFE9.2040509@bsdforen.de> References: <481CCFE9.2040509@bsdforen.de> Message-ID: On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Zachary wrote > > Very cool. > I'd like to put this on ioquake3.org when you think it is ready. > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org I'd love that of course, but I'll leave it up to the readers of this list to judge whether it is ready or not, I think. One thing I'm particularly unsure about is my display of black. I'd also like to make cvar values or command arguments prettier, but I'm not sure how to go about that. On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Dominic Fandrey wrote: > > How about sending it to the vim developer? > > Using it in this way is kind of limited until I work out a way to distinguish between q3 .cfg files and others, which I'm not sure exists even theoretically, let alone within vim. Thanks for the optimism though, guys :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zachary at ioquake.org Sat May 3 19:05:12 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 16:05:12 -0700 Subject: [quake3] Vim syntax highlighting file for q3 config files In-Reply-To: References: <481CCFE9.2040509@bsdforen.de> Message-ID: <0F92FFA8-EDC0-497F-9A7B-5B5AF48E4BA2@ioquake.org> I run ioq3 but yeah I would like to hear more optimism regarding the quality before I put it up. On May 3, 2008, at 15:28, "Ben Millwood" wrote: > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:02 PM, Zachary wrote > Very cool. > I'd like to put this on ioquake3.org when you think it is ready. > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > I'd love that of course, but I'll leave it up to the readers of this > list to judge whether it is ready or not, I think. > One thing I'm particularly unsure about is my display of black. I'd > also like to make cvar values or command arguments prettier, but I'm > not sure how to go about that. > > On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Dominic Fandrey > wrote: > > How about sending it to the vim developer? > > > Using it in this way is kind of limited until I work out a way to > distinguish between q3 .cfg files and others, which I'm not sure > exists even theoretically, let alone within vim. > > Thanks for the optimism though, guys :) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 03:42:24 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 00:42:24 -0700 Subject: new binaries and new mirrors Message-ID: Thanks to Angst, there are now new binaries from the super leet revision 1337 at: http://ioquake3.org/files/angst/ Also, if you ever have any security issues to discuss in private, please email security at lists.ioquake.org -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org From rwillmore at gmail.com Mon May 5 14:19:53 2008 From: rwillmore at gmail.com (Rob Willmore) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:19:53 -0500 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> I'm probably blind, but is there change log, etc to show what's new, etc, in this client? Thanks.. On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Zachary wrote: > Thanks to Angst, there are now new binaries from the super leet revision > 1337 at: > http://ioquake3.org/files/angst/ > > Also, if you ever have any security issues to discuss in private, please > email security at lists.ioquake.org > > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > > -- Willmore *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.* "Strength, justice, loyalty" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 14:53:55 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 11:53:55 -0700 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: http://svn.icculus.org/quake3/ On May 5, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Rob Willmore wrote: > I'm probably blind, but is there change log, etc to show what's new, > etc, in this client? Thanks.. > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Zachary wrote: > Thanks to Angst, there are now new binaries from the super leet > revision 1337 at: > http://ioquake3.org/files/angst/ > > Also, if you ever have any security issues to discuss in private, > please email security at lists.ioquake.org > > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > > > > > -- > Willmore > *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.* > "Strength, justice, loyalty" -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From harshavsn at gmail.com Mon May 5 15:04:12 2008 From: harshavsn at gmail.com (Harsha Sri Narayana) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:04:12 +0100 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> Another quick question, will the binaries on the get-it page be updated to 1.35 ? http://ioquake3.org/get-it/ On 05/05/2008, Zachary wrote: > http://svn.icculus.org/quake3/ > > On May 5, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Rob Willmore wrote: > > > I'm probably blind, but is there change log, etc to show what's new, > > etc, in this client? Thanks.. > > > > > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Zachary wrote: > > Thanks to Angst, there are now new binaries from the super leet > > revision 1337 at: > > http://ioquake3.org/files/angst/ > > > > Also, if you ever have any security issues to discuss in private, > > please email security at lists.ioquake.org > > > > > > -Zachary > > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > > > > > > --- > > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Willmore > > *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.* > > "Strength, justice, loyalty" > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > -- -Harsha From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 16:29:39 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 13:29:39 -0700 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> This is not a release, yet. On May 5, 2008, at 12:04, "Harsha Sri Narayana" wrote: > Another quick question, will the binaries on the get-it page be > updated to 1.35 ? > > http://ioquake3.org/get-it/ > > On 05/05/2008, Zachary wrote: >> http://svn.icculus.org/quake3/ >> >> On May 5, 2008, at 11:19 AM, Rob Willmore wrote: >> >>> I'm probably blind, but is there change log, etc to show what's new, >>> etc, in this client? Thanks.. >>> >>> >>> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 2:42 AM, Zachary wrote: >>> Thanks to Angst, there are now new binaries from the super leet >>> revision 1337 at: >>> http://ioquake3.org/files/angst/ >>> >>> Also, if you ever have any security issues to discuss in private, >>> please email security at lists.ioquake.org >>> >>> >>> -Zachary >>> zachary at ioquake.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org >>> Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Willmore >>> *Fortitudo, aequitas, fidelitas.* >>> "Strength, justice, loyalty" >> >> -Zachary >> zachary at ioquake.org >> >> >> >> > > > -- > -Harsha > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > From bnoordhuis at gmail.com Mon May 5 16:45:55 2008 From: bnoordhuis at gmail.com (Ben Noordhuis) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 22:45:55 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> Message-ID: <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Zachary wrote: > This is not a release, yet. What _will_ constitute a release? From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 17:23:15 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 14:23:15 -0700 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: When Timbo, Angst, Thilo, (hopefully) tjw, and (minimally) I, work towards one and release it. Until then, I am lucky that we have these builds that Angst has building via suse so we can get them up on the site and note that they are just from SVN. On May 5, 2008, at 1:45 PM, Ben Noordhuis wrote: > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 10:29 PM, Zachary wrote: >> This is not a release, yet. > > What _will_ constitute a release? > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org From bnoordhuis at gmail.com Mon May 5 17:32:11 2008 From: bnoordhuis at gmail.com (Ben Noordhuis) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 23:32:11 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Zachary wrote: > When Timbo, Angst, Thilo, (hopefully) tjw, and (minimally) I, work towards > one and release it. Is there a checklist of issues that need to be resolved before PR 1.35 can go live? I'm fairly certain many people on this mailing list wouldn't mind lending a hand if there was a well-defined road map to work with. From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 18:06:04 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 15:06:04 -0700 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Mainly: I want bugs from the recent (ipv6, SDL, maybe a better windows console if people are pissed about that still), and not so recent past worked out. Then we can at least branch, put it up, call it a beta, get feedback. Maybe make the installers more friendly, etc. On May 5, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Ben Noordhuis wrote: > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Zachary wrote: >> When Timbo, Angst, Thilo, (hopefully) tjw, and (minimally) I, work >> towards >> one and release it. > > Is there a checklist of issues that need to be resolved before PR 1.35 > can go live? I'm fairly certain many people on this mailing list > wouldn't mind lending a hand if there was a well-defined road map to > work with. > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org From noisyb at gmx.net Mon May 5 18:40:42 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 00:40:42 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> The working mouse input was replaced with something that doesn't feel like id Tech 3 anymore... http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1722.0 Please add a ORIGINAL_MOUSE flag and continue maintaining at least the original /mouse/ input code so people don't have to revert back to the last id point release... I know SDL makes maintaining the code easier for the developers... but the mouse input wasn't broken and didn't need to be fixed or repaced.. and after all only the advantages for the players, not the coders, should matter... please don't ignore or laugh about what people who don't know what SDL is but who play e.g. Q3A for /years/ have to say. Thank you! Zachary wrote: > Mainly: > I want bugs from the recent (ipv6, SDL, maybe a better windows console > if people are pissed about that still), and not so recent past worked out. > Then we can at least branch, put it up, call it a beta, get feedback. > Maybe make the installers more friendly, etc. > > On May 5, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Ben Noordhuis wrote: > >> On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Zachary wrote: >>> When Timbo, Angst, Thilo, (hopefully) tjw, and (minimally) I, work >>> towards >>> one and release it. >> >> Is there a checklist of issues that need to be resolved before PR 1.35 >> can go live? I'm fairly certain many people on this mailing list >> wouldn't mind lending a hand if there was a well-defined road map to >> work with. >> >> --- >> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org >> Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 >> >> > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 20:44:55 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:44:55 -0700 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> Message-ID: <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> Please troll someone else, I'm not falling for it. Go back to 4chan or whatever hole you crawled out of. -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org From jayschwa at gmail.com Mon May 5 21:34:25 2008 From: jayschwa at gmail.com (Jay Weisskopf) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:34:25 -0500 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: With the recent addition of some bells and whistles like IPv6 and anaglyph rendering, I'm wondering what the policy is for other minor or aesthetic enhancements. Here is a list of some things that come to mind: - Console - Cleaned up output that is more consistent and more concise - Improved consistency for variable names (might not be a good idea if configs are shared with original binaries) - More modern defaults ( /me thinks bilinear could be safely bumped to trilinear, etc) - Remove color codes when running a dedicated console without ansi_color - UI - Fix hall-of-mirrors weirdness with widescreen resolutions (enter options from in-game menu to see it) - Expose newer functionality in menus (resolutions / aspect ratios, anisotropic filtering) - http://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3475 - Renderer - Add anti-aliasing - Allow anisotropy levels to be changed on the fly - Add a toggle to improve dynamic lights - http://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3262 ~ Jay On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 5:06 PM, Zachary wrote: > Mainly: > I want bugs from the recent (ipv6, SDL, maybe a better windows console if > people are pissed about that still), and not so recent past worked out. > Then we can at least branch, put it up, call it a beta, get feedback. Maybe > make the installers more friendly, etc. > > > On May 5, 2008, at 2:32 PM, Ben Noordhuis wrote: > > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Zachary wrote: >> >>> When Timbo, Angst, Thilo, (hopefully) tjw, and (minimally) I, work >>> towards >>> one and release it. >>> >> >> Is there a checklist of issues that need to be resolved before PR 1.35 >> can go live? I'm fairly certain many people on this mailing list >> wouldn't mind lending a hand if there was a well-defined road map to >> work with. >> >> --- >> To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org >> Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 >> >> >> > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noisyb at gmx.net Mon May 5 20:54:41 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 02:54:41 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> Message-ID: <481FAC51.6080606@gmx.net> Then it has been decided. Zachary wrote: > Please troll someone else, I'm not falling for it. Go back to 4chan or > whatever hole you crawled out of. > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 21:52:22 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 18:52:22 -0700 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: We're definitely looking at extremely minor changes to this kind of thing that can be done with pk3s or something else simple and not too too hacky. On May 5, 2008, at 6:34 PM, Jay Weisskopf wrote: > With the recent addition of some bells and whistles like IPv6 and > anaglyph rendering, I'm wondering what the policy is for other minor > or aesthetic enhancements. Here is a list of some things that come > to mind: > Console > Cleaned up output that is more consistent and more concise > Improved consistency for variable names (might not be a good idea if > configs are shared with original binaries) > More modern defaults ( /me thinks bilinear could be safely bumped to > trilinear, etc) > Remove color codes when running a dedicated console without ansi_color > UI > Fix hall-of-mirrors weirdness with widescreen resolutions (enter > options from in-game menu to see it) > Expose newer functionality in menus (resolutions / aspect ratios, > anisotropic filtering) > http://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3475 > Renderer > Add anti-aliasing > Allow anisotropy levels to be changed on the fly > Add a toggle to improve dynamic lights > http://bugzilla.icculus.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3262 > > ~ Jay -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noisyb at gmx.net Mon May 5 21:01:32 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 03:01:32 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> Message-ID: <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> You /do/ realize that this will result in a 1.16-vs-1.32-like situation for all games based on ioq3, do you? Calling me a troll won't change this fact. Zachary wrote: > Please troll someone else, I'm not falling for it. Go back to 4chan or > whatever hole you crawled out of. > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 22:03:30 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 19:03:30 -0700 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> Message-ID: I realize that you simply want to troll more and have a reply, so have at it. The "situation" isn't relevant, SDL will be better for mouse input in the future. This will not hold up a release. On May 5, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Dirk wrote: > You /do/ realize that this will result in a 1.16-vs-1.32-like > situation for all games based on ioq3, do you? Calling me a troll > won't change this fact. > -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org From noisyb at gmx.net Mon May 5 21:27:22 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 03:27:22 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> Message-ID: <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> I think I can troll harder than I did in the last mails. Actually I wanted to give some /constructive/ criticism by suggesting that maintaining only ~1kByte of additional code (the original mouse input code everyone is used to) would give developers of games based on ioq3 and players a /choice/. Instead you get in your own way that this can't be done because /I/ suggested it. Do I really need to post the same suggestion with another mailing list account so you, the ioq3 team, can add the old mouse input as option again without losing face? Zachary wrote: > I realize that you simply want to troll more and have a reply, so have > at it. > > The "situation" isn't relevant, SDL will be better for mouse input in > the future. This will not hold up a release. > > > On May 5, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Dirk wrote: > >> You /do/ realize that this will result in a 1.16-vs-1.32-like >> situation for all games based on ioq3, do you? Calling me a troll >> won't change this fact. >> > > -Zachary > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > From zachary at ioquake.org Mon May 5 23:41:00 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 20:41:00 -0700 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> Message-ID: On May 5, 2008, at 6:27 PM, Dirk wrote: > I think I can troll harder than I did in the last mails. > > Actually I wanted to give some /constructive/ criticism by > suggesting that maintaining only ~1kByte of additional code (the > original mouse input code everyone is used to) would give developers > of games based on ioq3 and players a /choice/. I'm not flipping the project back to the stone age of straight- directinput or whatever simply to satiate a whining proxy troll and his buddies/shell accounts from the OA forums. > > > Instead you get in your own way that this can't be done because /I/ > suggested it. Not at all, if you had a /good/ idea, I'd be interested in it. All you do is motivate me to ignore any similar suggestions because they probably originate from you or other proxy trolls who waste ioquake3 time, well formatted e-mail or not, trolling is trolling, and you can use whatever style you want when attempting to hijack ioq3's main discussion list. > Do I really need to post the same suggestion with another mailing > list account so you, the ioq3 team, can add the old mouse input as > option again without losing face? No thanks, I'm probably going to move this list to lists.ioquake.org so I can ban you quicker. Please do think about the problem and come up with a real solution on the SDL bug tracker or mailing list if you have one. SDL isn't being pulled unless I can have at least fifteen ponies. Or a brand new mustang, the shelby cobra variant if you will. -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org From baggett.patrick at gmail.com Mon May 5 23:41:16 2008 From: baggett.patrick at gmail.com (Patrick Baggett) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 03:41:16 +0000 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> References: <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> Message-ID: <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> The old code doesn't build on SGI IRIX, (and probably a few other platforms like Mac OS X, perhaps some BSDs) and that matters to me. If SDL's mouse movement is the problem, the solution is to fix SDL, not IOQuake3. That would benefit a large variety of applications depending on SDL for mouse input. What would be constructive would be for you to create a test case using SDL that shows the problem and then work with the libSDL people to fix it. What you are promoting is a temporary solution, a workaround, but it doesn't target the core problem. Patrick Baggett On 5/6/08, Dirk wrote: > > I think I can troll harder than I did in the last mails. > > Actually I wanted to give some /constructive/ criticism by suggesting that > maintaining only ~1kByte of additional code (the original mouse input code > everyone is used to) would give developers of games based on ioq3 and > players a /choice/. > > Instead you get in your own way that this can't be done because /I/ > suggested it. > > Do I really need to post the same suggestion with another mailing list > account so you, the ioq3 team, can add the old mouse input as option again > without losing face? > > > Zachary wrote: > > > I realize that you simply want to troll more and have a reply, so have > > at it. > > > > The "situation" isn't relevant, SDL will be better for mouse input in > > the future. This will not hold up a release. > > > > > > On May 5, 2008, at 6:01 PM, Dirk wrote: > > > > You /do/ realize that this will result in a 1.16-vs-1.32-like situation > > > for all games based on ioq3, do you? Calling me a troll won't change this > > > fact. > > > > > > > > -Zachary > > zachary at ioquake.org > > > > > > > > > > --- > > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > > > > > > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From noisyb at gmx.net Mon May 5 23:27:19 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 05:27:19 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: References: <9841a34a0805051119v4e618981y1312b440aad3bdcc@mail.gmail.com> <7784416f0805051204k6ade612cmf79a3177165c9238@mail.gmail.com> <8A67B06C-6E71-4FB0-AAB7-32F3FD3445E4@ioquake.org> <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> Message-ID: <481FD017.4040405@gmx.net> Zachary wrote: > > On May 5, 2008, at 6:27 PM, Dirk wrote: > >> I think I can troll harder than I did in the last mails. >> >> Actually I wanted to give some /constructive/ criticism by suggesting >> that maintaining only ~1kByte of additional code (the original mouse >> input code everyone is used to) would give developers of games based >> on ioq3 and players a /choice/. > > I'm not flipping the project back to the stone age of > straight-directinput or whatever simply to satiate a whining proxy > troll and his buddies/shell accounts from the OA forums. I suggested to make it /optional/. To give people a /choice/. >> >> >> Instead you get in your own way that this can't be done because /I/ >> suggested it. > > Not at all, if you had a /good/ idea, I'd be interested in it. All you > do is motivate me to ignore any similar suggestions because they > probably originate from you or > other proxy trolls who waste ioquake3 time, well formatted e-mail or > not, trolling is trolling, and you can use whatever style you want when > attempting to hijack ioq3's main > discussion list. > >> Do I really need to post the same suggestion with another mailing list >> account so you, the ioq3 team, can add the old mouse input as option >> again without losing face? > > No thanks, I'm probably going to move this list to lists.ioquake.org so > I can ban you quicker. > > Please do think about the problem and come up with a real solution on > the SDL bug tracker or mailing list if you have one. SDL isn't being > pulled unless I can have > at least fifteen ponies. Or a brand new mustang, the shelby cobra > variant if you will. Are you suggesting to add the code for original id tech 3 mouse input into libSDL...? You mean in the sense of SDL_Init(SDL_INIT_QUAKE3MOUSE) ???? Now you made me speechless... respect... :o From noisyb at gmx.net Mon May 5 23:47:26 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 05:47:26 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> References: <54885e060805051345p5dcd8b3l9dfb9e4e42c03239@mail.gmail.com> <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <481FD4CE.2030600@gmx.net> Patrick Baggett wrote: > The old code doesn't build on SGI IRIX, (and probably a few other platforms > like Mac OS X, perhaps some BSDs) and that matters to me. That's all right. I suggested to make the original id tech 3 mouse input code optional at compile time. The new SDL code could remain the default. > If SDL's mouse > movement is the problem, the solution is to fix SDL, not IOQuake3. That > would benefit a large variety of applications depending on SDL for mouse > input. The original id tech 3 code were wrappers around the Linux/X11 API to read input from the mouse... and around the Windows API to read input from the mouse... It wasn't much code and it worked... for years... The switch to libSDL made the life for developers easier because instead of maintaining two wrappers for the Linux/X11 API and for the Windows API they need to maintain now only a single wrapper for libSDL... and libSDL itself does now wrap the different API's of Linux/X11, Windows, etc. into SDL functions... which is great... they have outsourced the mouse input to libSDL that way and need to take care only of the SDL API in future... But the problem is that the libSDL wrappers are different than the original id tech 3 one's... and players notice that... and what's the point of maintaining a game engine the players don't like? > What would be constructive would be for you to create a test case using SDL > that shows the problem and then work with the libSDL people to fix it. What > you are promoting is a temporary solution, a workaround, but it doesn't > target the core problem. > > Patrick Baggett I don't think that problems with ioq3 should be fixed in SDL. From baggett.patrick at gmail.com Tue May 6 01:56:24 2008 From: baggett.patrick at gmail.com (Patrick Baggett) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 00:56:24 -0500 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <481FD4CE.2030600@gmx.net> References: <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> <481FD4CE.2030600@gmx.net> Message-ID: <52f46b6b0805052256p310e5976n7d022ab57a34e201@mail.gmail.com> > The original id tech 3 code were wrappers around the Linux/X11 API to read > input from the mouse... and around the Windows API to read input from the > mouse... It wasn't much code and it worked... for years... > > The switch to libSDL made the life for developers easier because instead > of maintaining two wrappers for the Linux/X11 API and for the Windows API > they need to maintain now only a single wrapper for libSDL... and libSDL > itself does now wrap the different API's of Linux/X11, Windows, etc. into > SDL functions... which is great... they have outsourced the mouse input to > libSDL that way and need to take care only of the SDL API in future... > > But the problem is that the libSDL wrappers are different than the > original id tech 3 one's... and players notice that... and what's the point > of maintaining a game engine the players don't like? > You've identified the problem, X11/DirectInput code was "good", SDL is "bad". However SDL is not a magical black box. It's mouse code must also use DirectInput or X11 as an implementation. Yet for some reason, the mention of determining *why*, *what causes* SDL's use of the underlying API (DirectInput/X11) turns you off. What you fail to recognize is that DirectInput is DirectInput, whether or not it is linked in SDL or IOQuake3. It is the *usage* pattern that determines whether or not one is acceptable or the other. What would help is an explanation of *why* SDL's mouse code is unsatisfactory (not just a statement that it is), and how it differs in its usage from the original Quake3 code. Again, both are using the same DirectInput API -- so functionally the only difference *is the way in which DirectInput is being used*. So, now that we know both are using the exact same API to perform their work, let's move on? I don't think that problems with ioq3 should be fixed in SDL. > > Let's follow some logic here. Quake3's mouse code is "good". Quake3 uses DirectInput for mouse interfacing. IOQuake3's mouse code is "bad" IOQuake3 uses SDL for mouse interfacing. Your conclusion: The problem is in IOQuake3 and that the problem resides in IOQuake3, not SDL. *This does not logically follow*. SDL may not be as 100% polished in all areas as we might like. You suggest not using SDL. I suggest fixing SDL. If every time someone hit a problem with SDL, they backed out of the changes made to their application, it is unlikely that SDL would improve at the rapid rate that it does. But that aside... Once again, you've yet to explain how the code differs. *It is critical that this variance be made known in order for anyone, anytime at having a shot at fixing your problem without either side having to give up what they want. You get good mouse code and IOQuake3 uses SDL.* *If all you want to do is "fix" (hack) old code from Quake3, then do so*. No one is stopping you from fixing up IOQuake3 with some custom modification. You can even make a website explaining how your IOQuake3 binary has 50% more mouse handling goodness than standard IOQuake3. If people are truly interested by this and this is a serious, breaking-point issue, you'll have a lot of people thank you. Build it and they will come, etc. However, you've constantly pushed that the changes made need to be reverted. You've merely complained that a "regression" has occurred and assume that the best way to "fix" it is back out on a change. No, that is a fast way of getting back to a previous state, not fixing it. When a regression occurs, you fix the regression, not back out the change. It really is that simple. And right now, you aren't part of the solution, you're just complaining. It has already been explained to you what you need to do in order to see some forward motion in solving your problem. So what is your next move? Complain that DirectInput needs to be back in again? Patrick Baggett > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From thomas.limin at gmail.com Tue May 6 02:42:25 2008 From: thomas.limin at gmail.com (Thomas LIMIN) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 08:42:25 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <52f46b6b0805052256p310e5976n7d022ab57a34e201@mail.gmail.com> References: <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> <481FD4CE.2030600@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052256p310e5976n7d022ab57a34e201@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48e9c07c0805052342n765305abq6e70dd445aad302@mail.gmail.com> Hello all, Could Dirk explain to a newcomer what is exactly the problem with the SDL mouse input? I didn't notice anything wrong playing ioquake3 on my Linux computer. I know I'm not a very good nor an intensively trained player, so what a very good an trained old q3 player will complain about? Thanks in advance. Thomas LIMIN From noisyb at gmx.net Tue May 6 02:09:36 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 08:09:36 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <52f46b6b0805052256p310e5976n7d022ab57a34e201@mail.gmail.com> References: <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> <481FD4CE.2030600@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052256p310e5976n7d022ab57a34e201@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <481FF620.60008@gmx.net> Patrick Baggett wrote: >> The original id tech 3 code were wrappers around the Linux/X11 API to read >> input from the mouse... and around the Windows API to read input from the >> mouse... It wasn't much code and it worked... for years... >> >> The switch to libSDL made the life for developers easier because instead >> of maintaining two wrappers for the Linux/X11 API and for the Windows API >> they need to maintain now only a single wrapper for libSDL... and libSDL >> itself does now wrap the different API's of Linux/X11, Windows, etc. into >> SDL functions... which is great... they have outsourced the mouse input to >> libSDL that way and need to take care only of the SDL API in future... >> >> But the problem is that the libSDL wrappers are different than the >> original id tech 3 one's... and players notice that... and what's the point >> of maintaining a game engine the players don't like? >> > > You've identified the problem, X11/DirectInput code was "good", SDL is > "bad". However SDL is not a magical black box. It's mouse code must also use > DirectInput or X11 as an implementation. Yet for some reason, the mention of > determining *why*, *what causes* SDL's use of the underlying API > (DirectInput/X11) turns you off. What you fail to recognize is that > DirectInput is DirectInput, whether or not it is linked in SDL or IOQuake3. > It is the *usage* pattern that determines whether or not one is acceptable > or the other. What would help is an explanation of *why* SDL's mouse code is > unsatisfactory (not just a statement that it is), and how it differs in its > usage from the original Quake3 code. Again, both are using the same > DirectInput API -- so functionally the only difference *is the way in which > DirectInput is being used*. > > So, now that we know both are using the exact same API to perform their > work, let's move on? You repeat what I wrote. But your version is easier to understand. > I don't think that problems with ioq3 should be fixed in SDL. >> Let's follow some logic here. > Quake3's mouse code is "good". > Quake3 uses DirectInput for mouse interfacing. > IOQuake3's mouse code is "bad" > IOQuake3 uses SDL for mouse interfacing. > > Your conclusion: > The problem is in IOQuake3 and that the problem resides in IOQuake3, not > SDL. > *This does not logically follow*. > SDL may not be as 100% polished in all areas as we might like. You suggest > not using SDL. I suggested leaving the original id tech 3 mouse code where it was and to make it optional at compile time to give people a /choice/. The new SDL input code can remain the default. > I suggest fixing SDL. ...if it really is a bug in SDL that the ioq3 mouse input works different after switching to SDL. If that is the case then switching to SDL-only and abandoning the id tech 3 input code was premature. > If every time someone hit a problem > with SDL, they backed out of the changes made to their application, it is > unlikely that SDL would improve at the rapid rate that it does. > But that aside... > > Once again, you've yet to explain how the code differs. *It is critical that > this variance be made known in order for anyone, anytime at having a shot at > fixing your problem without either side having to give up what they want. > You get good mouse code and IOQuake3 uses SDL.* so I should go and compare SDL/src/video/x11/SDL_x11events.c with ioq3/code/unix/linux_glimp.c and SDL/src/video/win32/SDL_win32events.c with ioq3/code/win32/win_glimp.c make a Q3_to_SDL_mouse_input.patch... and ask the SDL team to apply it because the ioq3 dev who made the SDL-only move wasn't motivated enough to do that himself in the first place? I have to admit that I just started doing that... when I'm done and it is a bug, not just a different way, in SDL... we might all be happy afterwards... but RIGHT NOW ioq3 doesn't have the feel/handling of id tech 3 anymore... so why not leave the old id tech 3 mouse input code where it was until the SDL-only solution is a real replacement? > *If all you want to do is "fix" (hack) old code from Quake3, then do so*. No > one is stopping you from fixing up IOQuake3 with some custom modification. > You can even make a website explaining how your IOQuake3 binary has 50% more > mouse handling goodness than standard IOQuake3. If people are truly > interested by this and this is a serious, breaking-point issue, you'll have > a lot of people thank you. Build it and they will come, etc. Forks are bad, technical solutions to solve human disputes... not interested... > However, you've constantly pushed that the changes made need to be reverted. I suggested leaving the original id tech 3 mouse code where it was and to make it optional at compile time to give people a /choice/. The new SDL input code can remain the default. > You've merely complained that a "regression" has occurred and assume that > the best way to "fix" it is back out on a change. No, that is a fast way of > getting back to a previous state, not fixing it. When a regression occurs, > you fix the regression, not back out the change. It really is that simple. > And right now, you aren't part of the solution, you're just complaining. It > has already been explained to you what you need to do in order to see some > forward motion in solving your problem. So what is your next move? Complain > that DirectInput needs to be back in again? Yes, I do complain that going SDL-only and abandoning the id tech 3 input code was /premature/. If the different feel/handling of the mouse input is the result of a bug in SDL or the result of an error made during the move to SDL-only didn't concern me much. I just came here to suggest to leave the original id tech 3 mouse code where it was and to make it optional at compile time to give people a /choice/. The new SDL input code can remain the default. What is so offensive about this GREAT (sorry) idea? It could be handled like this UNTIL(!) the real problem (bug in SDL or error in transition to SDL) has been found. Not just move to SDL-only and tell someone who dares to complain about the substitionless removal of the id tech 3 code that it his fault he didn't fix the SDL-only code to make it work like the old id tech 3 code which was removed. From bnoordhuis at gmail.com Tue May 6 03:05:19 2008 From: bnoordhuis at gmail.com (Ben Noordhuis) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:05:19 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <481FF620.60008@gmx.net> References: <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> <481FD4CE.2030600@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052256p310e5976n7d022ab57a34e201@mail.gmail.com> <481FF620.60008@gmx.net> Message-ID: <54885e060805060005l3ea55306s8076a28629fbf4d@mail.gmail.com> Great way to derail a thread. Could someone please ban this joker? From noisyb at gmx.net Tue May 6 02:21:21 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 08:21:21 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <48e9c07c0805052342n765305abq6e70dd445aad302@mail.gmail.com> References: <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> <481FD4CE.2030600@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052256p310e5976n7d022ab57a34e201@mail.gmail.com> <48e9c07c0805052342n765305abq6e70dd445aad302@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <481FF8E1.4080200@gmx.net> You can read it e.g. here http://openarena.ws/board/index.php?topic=1722.0 The differencies experienced range from none to fatal depending if the player uses Windows or Linux or has a slow or fast PC or if he plays Urt, CPMA or Defrag... input lag, deceleration when moving the mouse fast when doing a rocketjump or quick turns... or just "it doesn't feel the same anymore"... some players use a different sens for every weapon and complain because the sens factor has changed too... but that can afaik be compensated using cl_platformSensitivity.. I think it would be less of an effort to /keep/ the old input code to be optionally activated at compile time instead of going through this list and prove them all wrong... some people play since years and are quite religious about this matter... Thomas LIMIN wrote: > Hello all, > > Could Dirk explain to a newcomer what is exactly the problem with the > SDL mouse input? > > I didn't notice anything wrong playing ioquake3 on my Linux computer. > I know I'm not a very good nor an intensively trained player, so what > a very good an trained old q3 player will complain about? > > Thanks in advance. > > Thomas LIMIN > > --- > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to quake3-unsubscribe at icculus.org > Mailing list archives: http://icculus.org/cgi-bin/ezmlm/ezmlm-cgi?50 > > From erik at insectenboek.nl Tue May 6 03:22:27 2008 From: erik at insectenboek.nl (Erik K.) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 09:22:27 +0200 Subject: [quake3] SDL input (was new binaries and new mirrors) In-Reply-To: <54885e060805060005l3ea55306s8076a28629fbf4d@mail.gmail.com> References: <481F8CEA.4080206@gmx.net> <51A9E6E4-AF14-47D8-AE63-2A3C2525A130@ioquake.org> <481FADEC.2060909@gmx.net> <481FB3FA.8080303@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052041s4b8998e8oeb4b08af11464792@mail.gmail.com> <481FD4CE.2030600@gmx.net> <52f46b6b0805052256p310e5976n7d022ab57a34e201@mail.gmail.com> <481FF620.60008@gmx.net> <54885e060805060005l3ea55306s8076a28629fbf4d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48200733.3000904@insectenboek.nl> Even though the discussion seems to have gone bad, the 'troll' (?) does have a point. SDL input is really a step back (for now). On windows at least, it's very unsmooth. Usually casual gamers don't notice it, only the somewhat more competative seasoned gamers. Would it really be *that* troublesome to add the old input code again (as an OPTION)? Untill SDL matures that is? It really is a big problem imo to not have smooth input. The experienced gamers notice it and don't want to use SDL input. From ludwig.nussel at suse.de Tue May 6 03:32:40 2008 From: ludwig.nussel at suse.de (Ludwig Nussel) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:32:40 +0200 Subject: [quake3] new binaries and new mirrors In-Reply-To: <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> References: <54885e060805051432l2155d77alb10abe061bf747ca@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200805060932.40843.ludwig.nussel@suse.de> Ben Noordhuis wrote: > On Mon, May 5, 2008 at 11:23 PM, Zachary wrote: > > When Timbo, Angst, Thilo, (hopefully) tjw, and (minimally) I, work towards > > one and release it. > > Is there a checklist of issues that need to be resolved before PR 1.35 > can go live? I'm fairly certain many people on this mailing list > wouldn't mind lending a hand if there was a well-defined road map to > work with. One area that certainly needs work is the installer for Windows. With some NSIS docu reading it shouldn't be too hard to make it visually more appealing. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) From ludwig.nussel at suse.de Tue May 6 04:14:06 2008 From: ludwig.nussel at suse.de (Ludwig Nussel) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 10:14:06 +0200 Subject: [quake3] SDL input (was new binaries and new mirrors) In-Reply-To: <48200733.3000904@insectenboek.nl> References: <54885e060805060005l3ea55306s8076a28629fbf4d@mail.gmail.com> <48200733.3000904@insectenboek.nl> Message-ID: <200805061014.07411.ludwig.nussel@suse.de> Erik K. wrote: > Even though the discussion seems to have gone bad, the 'troll' (?) does > have a point. SDL input is really a step back (for now). On windows at > least, it's very unsmooth. Usually casual gamers don't notice it, only > the somewhat more competative seasoned gamers. Would it really be *that* > troublesome to add the old input code again (as an OPTION)? Untill SDL > matures that is? It really is a big problem imo to not have smooth > input. The experienced gamers notice it and don't want to use SDL input. There actually seem to be some people with a clue in that openarea forum. They really should come here and post their findings/patches on the list rather than some web forum. Anyways one real issue seems to be that the event queue overflows if flooded with mouse events. E.g. due to a slow system or a mouse with high resolution. The old linux_glimp fixed that by throwing away events that came in too fast. win_input didn't need that because it polled the mouse coordinates every frame instead of processing events. The method of linux_glimp could easily be reintroduced in sdl_input I guess. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) From noisyb at gmx.net Tue May 6 04:23:43 2008 From: noisyb at gmx.net (Dirk) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 10:23:43 +0200 Subject: [quake3] SDL input (was new binaries and new mirrors) Message-ID: <4820158F.6080105@gmx.net> Please don't take changing the mouse input so lightly... I know a Defrag player from Australia who plays since he's 8 and who turned 9 this January... I spec'ed him how he did Coldrun with a ping of 400ms on a european Defrag server... not in 15 seconds but he made it... why force /him/ to get used to another mouse input? Please consider to keep the original id tech 3 input code in your releases until the SDL-only solution really is a 1:1 replacement.. It's no effort. From ludwig.nussel at suse.de Tue May 6 07:24:54 2008 From: ludwig.nussel at suse.de (Ludwig Nussel) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 13:24:54 +0200 Subject: [quake3] SDL input (was new binaries and new mirrors) In-Reply-To: <4820158F.6080105@gmx.net> References: <4820158F.6080105@gmx.net> Message-ID: <200805061324.54679.ludwig.nussel@suse.de> Dirk wrote: > Please consider to keep the original id tech 3 input code in your > releases until the SDL-only solution really is a 1:1 replacement.. > > It's no effort. Please call someone who has programming skills to discuss this issue further. Your concern is valid but the way you talk encourages people to flag you as troll and ignore you rather than finding a solution. Please back off in your own interest. cu Ludwig -- (o_ Ludwig Nussel //\ V_/_ http://www.suse.de/ SUSE LINUX Products GmbH, GF: Markus Rex, HRB 16746 (AG Nuernberg) From zachary at ioquake.org Tue May 6 12:34:41 2008 From: zachary at ioquake.org (Zachary) Date: Tue, 6 May 2008 09:34:41 -0700 Subject: List moving Message-ID: <8F335EE3-F03A-4C92-B04E-26B202840837@ioquake.org> This mailing list service is moving Thank you Ryan Gordon for maintaining it despite my constant requests to have Dirk and others banned :) Downtime should only be a few hours while I work with dreamhost to import the mail to the new list THE NEW PLACE FOR ALL LIST INFORMATION IS: http://lists.ioquake.org/listinfo.cgi AND YAY, WE'LL HAVE REAL ARCHIVES. If everything goes well: You won't be able to reply to this message on this list. You will be subscribed to the new list automatically and should receive a message as such. You may need to update your filters if you don't receive any mail, the new header should be [ioquake3] You'll send mail to ioquake3 at lists.ioquake.org instead of the old address. THEN, FINALLY, YOU'LL RECEIVE A MESSAGE FROM ME AT THE NEW LIST, GOOD LUCK STARFIGHTER! -Zachary zachary at ioquake.org