[quake3] Re: ioUrT licensing controversy (was Re: Greetings)

[Erik K.]

On 22-4-2008 14:32, Thilo Schulz wrote:
> "for operation only with the full version of the software game QUAKE III 
> ARENA"
> 
> Let alone the fact that ioUrT exists for download on the official 
> urbanterror.net page and is advertised on the official web page for running 
> with UrT is illegal. Strictly speaking, they maybe wouldn't even be allowed 
> to reference officially to ioquake3 as being capable to run the urban terror 
> mod.

Again:

1: What you're mentioning here is about the sdk license and therefor is 
between IDsoftware and the UrT team (FrozenSand) alone, you have NOTHING 
to do with this. FrozenSand claims IDsofware gave them the okay on this 
even. Wether you chose to believe that or not, it's between ID and FS, 
so very very moot point.

2: You omitted the word "create" from the quote from the sdk. So it 
actually is: "CREATE for operation only with the full version of the 
software game QUAKE III ARENA", not just "for operation only with the 
full version of the software game QUAKE III ARENA". Very important 
difference! The mod was indeed CREATED for operation only with the full 
version of the software game QUAKE III ARENA, yet it also HAPPENS to run 
on other engines. Anyway, still a moot point, since it's between ID and 
FS only anyway.

> Saying the game is "in theory" able to run other modifications is just 
> hypocritical. Timbo is right insofar, that setting the standard BASEGAME to 
> your own game directory while keep talking about that "separate products" 
> crap pretty much shows the intention this whole thing started off with:
> Enable players without the original quake3 and cd key to play while not 
> wanting to fulfil the GPL.

Now you're talking about GPL, something which you would have a right to 
complain about. So this is the only relevant part of the discussion. But 
in my opinion, they (ioUrbanTerror and Urban Terror) are separate 
products, based on separate code-bases, made by separate people. They 
are fulfilling the GPL by having the code for ioUrbanTerror (which is 
licensed under the GPL) available for the public. They are not making 
the Urban Terror (licensed under the sdk) code available for public, 
since the sdk does not require it. So, legally fine.

> Alas, the rights to the original mod code lies with id of course. Still, it is 
> very cheap of the Urban Terror developers to resort to this phrasemongering 
> bullshit to reap the benefits of open development work we do for ioquake3 
> while at the same time keeping their sources closed out of fear someone might 
> fork or change the gameplay in a way they don't want. Timbo is rightly angry, 
> and all of ioquake3's main developers share these sentiments.

I can understand these sentiments and I now regret that I helped in 
causing them. They should GPL the Urban Terror code (not for legal, but 
other reasons) :) They are benefitting (player-number-wise, not 
financially of course) from gpl, but not giving back. It may be time for 
me to start a topic about this on their forums. Give me some time, I'll 
cook something up.

Now something that may seem as an off-topic rant, but I'm letting you 
guys know who you will probably meet when you ever try to contact Frozen 
Sand... :)

Frozen Sand's Project Coordinator/Public Relations-guy (Oswald) somtimes 
even crosses the legal line. You can't go and call 
ioUrbanTerror/UrbanTerror separate products for legallity-sake and then 
calling it a single stand-alone product for PR-sake, Oswald! Here's a 
(deleted after complaints by me) quote from Oswald's blog: "now FREE, 
STAND ALONE GAME...suck that you GPL weenies!". He lacks respect for 
many things, this is just one of them. Here's another example the way: 
http://home.isp.studenten.net/algemeen/osh8.jpg

Oswald almost completely left the Urban Terror team after version 3.7, 
not fulfilling any of his PR or Coordinating (or any other) duties. He 
was very inactive and didn't contribute anything to either 4.0 or 4.1. 
But when these versions made playernumbers skyrocket from 200 
playing-at-a-time on a good night to 1250 playing-at-a-time on a good 
night, he suddenly came back and made very sure he secured his 
'front-man' position for Urban Terror again.

Anyway, he has 0 actual skills, has no knowledge of coding/licensing at 
all and always is 'too busy' to take care of important things in a tidy 
and timely fashion (look at all the dead download links on the 
urbanterror.net download page for example). However, he does make sure 
he has all the key 'front-man' positions (official 
contact/forumadmin/siteadmin/ircadmin/domain-owner/moddbadmin etc. etc.) 
in Frozen Sand. He lacks time/competence and knowledge. Deadly combo for 
a front-man.