ioUrT licensing controversy (was Re: Greetings)

[Tim Angus]

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:40:22 +0200 Erik wrote:
> If you really feel so bad about it 
> though, I'll tell them to change 'basegame' to 'timangus' next
> release. That way, the game will be dependant on you? ^^ It would
> still work fine and it wouldn't be 'dependant' on UrT anymore. GPL
> problem solved?

Assuming ioUrT and UrT were separated, yes.

> The sdk does not say you can USE a mod only on Q3A. It just says the
> mod has to be CREATED for operation only with Q3A. And that it is.
> It's coded to work on Q3A. It HAPPENS to run on any Q3-based-engine.

You're only reading one part.

"[...] ID grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to
distribute copies of the Software free of charge for non-commercial
purposes by electronic means only [...] for operation only with the
full version of the software game QUAKE III ARENA"

> Haha. The sdk is a matter between ID and the UrT devs. Why would they 
> feel obligated to 'proof' to you that this correspondance happened?
> And yes, it was an "okay, that's legally fine", not an "okay, we'll
> make an exception for you".

The point I was trying to make is that it's worthless mentioning this
unless you actually display the correspondance. It's like me saying
"it's OK to rob the bank, the police said I could".

> >By that logic, is the baseq3 game a separate product from Q3A?
>
> By that logic, it could have been. If the ID would have decided to
> brand it like that. But they didn't.

They didn't because it is a single product and doesn't make any sense to
divide it in two.

> Just because I don't care about it, doesn't mean I don't know about
> it. Just because I don't know about the details of aggregating
> doesn't mean I don't know about how bundling closed and open software
> is often perfectly fine.

You seem to be getting quite emotional for someone that doesn't care :).

> Yes, I am sure there are no licensing problems. Are you sure there
> are?

No, of course not. Legality is rarely black and white. This is after all
why lawyers exist in the first place.

> Get a lawyer and sue the hell out of the Urban Terror Mod Team
> for all their money ;) I'm sure they got very rich from their free
> mod.

It's the principle that is at stake here, not finance.

> ioUrT and UrT are independent works too. UrT is based on the Q3-sdk. 
> ioUrT is based on ioquake3.

If they were distributed separately, these sentences would be true.

> They happen to share those headers etc.

They "happen" to share those headers because they're the same
headers :).

> But ioUrT and UrT were definatly developed separately from each
> other, by different people, working of different code bases.

...and by combining the two through code and distribution you create a
single product.

> I assume you missed the last paragraph of my initial message:

No I didn't. In fact this is the part that confuses me the most. You
seem to be all for releasing the UrT source yet you were instrumental
in preventing it by firstly creating ioUrT and secondly through
convincing yourself and others that the licensing is not a problem. And
now you continue to do so /despite/ claiming not to care and /despite/
not being involved with UrT's development any longer. This seems like a
bit of a contradiction to me.