[quake3] ioq3 is going nowhere

[monk at rq3.com]

> I tried my best. I begged. I trolled. I made an ass of myself and I did
> send a patch.
>
> But when small minded people just want to be able to attach their names
> to Q3 without any interest of progress that leads further than December
> 1999 then, i guess, i rather waste my time elsewhere.

Well, for something that's not controlled by committee, you can try
Evolution Q3 or XreaL.  Oh yeah, this will be another long one.

The thing is, from ioq3's website, the stated purpose of the project is:

"Our permanent goal is to create the open source Quake 3 distribution upon
which people base their games and projects."

While they are open to other improvements, their eye is towards a solid
basic foundation that other people can improve.  You had a gripe with the
value of one cvar.  While I and others may support the motivation and
sentiment behind your request, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's a
good idea or that it's an idea that EVERYONE is behind.  I mean, who
DOESN'T want to make Q3 more popular and easier for new players to
interact with?  It's like free beer for everyone.

But the problem comes with the consequences.  Some of which were brought
up.  Some of the core developers are very uncomfortable with the security
issues that may arise from enabling that by setting by default.  While you
or I may not agree with that, it's a valid concern for some of the people
here who have put in many days and weeks of work (like, from a straight
manhour count).  There is of course going to be some resistence from
someone who just jumps in and wants things done now now now.  I'm guilty
of that myself.

You made a code patch.  So, I'm guessing you can code.  If you want to
contribute something more meaningful to the overall ioq3 project, maybe
contact Raynor of the Evolution Q3 project.  See if he would be adverse to
you backporting his improvements from EvQ3 1.1 into ioq3.  Heck, EvQ3
itself is a fusion of ioq3 and XreaL.  Maybe even contact Treb from XreaL
and see if he minds, too.  I would bet that they probably don't.  I
suggest EvQ3 1.1 since it still supports lightmaps and therefore won't
break the multitude of existing Q3 content like maps.

So if you backport the improvements to ioq3, I doubt the core ioq3 team
would have any problem with including them as optional patches on the
website.  And that makes it far easier for anyone using ioq3 as a base to
incorporate those features into their own projects.

Eventually, with enough testing and tweaking, you could probably start a
dialog to merge some of those optional patches into the main ioq3 source.

Yes, it's a slower process.  However, it's a less abrasive process.  Had I
the technical aptitude, this is what I would be doing.  As a mod
developer, I too would like prettier graphics, more modern model/animation
support, and agree with the sentiment of making it easier for new players
to get my content.

There comes a time when you have to decide how much you want something. 
It's easy to send a few emails to people.  It's hard to get your hands
dirty.  I would be getting my hands dirty had I the skillset.  You seem
like you have the skillset.  The only problem is you've focused too
narrowly on one certain issue.  And, honestly, ioq3 is not the only place
you need to spend time on to get that autodownload issue resolved.  You
need to talk with various mod developers, UrT, RQ3, Padman, Tremulous,
etc. to get them to change their ways as well.  id just released Quake 3
on Steam.  People are buying and downloading that right now.  Do you think
that, for this re-release, id changed their autodownload cvar?  If not,
why?  They already updated their package once to resolve a DOSBox
licensing issue, maybe if you contact id and make a good case, you can get
them to do that tweak as well.

That's not being facetious, that's being practical.  There are many
avenues to try before giving up.  Some are more work than others.  People
are dismissing you as a troll because, well, they haven't seen your
commitment, really.  If you put in the work, you'll earn the respect.

Just like many real life situations.

I hope at one point this issue is revisted as there are several people on
the list who have the same sentiment as Dirk in regards to enabling
autodownloads.  For me, though, it's as simple as making sure it's enabled
in RQ3.  Trying to regulate that for all of q3-dom is beyond the scope of
my control.  So while I agree with the sentiment, I realize it's not
something any one person has direct control over and that a consensus will
have to be reached.

And, I hope at some point in the future, ioq3 grows to encompass more than
it is now in terms of graphics and content format support.  But, that's
neither here nor there... if coders want to crossport or backport the work
done on other projects, that's phenominal and lets everyone share in the
fruits of their labor.  If they don't, well, that's their prerogative.

Whatever you decide to do, email other projects, talk to id, backport
stuff as patches for ioq3, I wish you luck.  Everyone here is doing this
on their own time (well except that SuSE/Novell guy, but that was cheating
for a week) and it competes with other projects and RL.  If you can find
the time to put forth more effort, kudos to ya.  There are other routes
than giving up.

Monk.