From hook_l at pyrogon.com  Wed May 14 16:54:04 2003
From: hook_l at pyrogon.com (Brian Hook)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 13:54:04 -0700
Subject: test
Message-ID: <200351413544.452045@centrino>





From nick at rockstarvancouver.com  Wed May 14 17:11:18 2003
From: nick at rockstarvancouver.com (Nick Trout)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:11:18 -0700
Subject: Lua
Message-ID: <911F8C8EB7A8084AAEDD55CEDC54D8F810D437@iggy.rockstarvancouver.com>


> > >I'm interested in embedding Lua in the Quake2 engine to play around

> > >with Lua scripting.

I got the latest code from CVS, mirrored your MSVC project workspace
structure, and built q2x. The software version runs just fine. I
couldn't get the GL version to compile because of a missing "GL/glext.h"
file. I can't seem to find this file anywhere.

I take it from a post you made on the Lua mailing list a while ago that
you want to replace the guts of q2x with Lua to perform all of the cvar
and command functionality. I could help with this if you like. It might
be best to phase in Lua replacement code one area at a time, e.g.:

 * replace cvar functionality (src/common/q_cvar.c) with access to Lua
tables which are read from config files, or set from command prompt.
There could be several ways of doing this, e.g., functionally or by
using Lua tables and adding metamethods.

 * replace cmd functionality with Lua calls (src/common/q_cmd.c) -
provide bindings to q2x core functionality. Should bindings be generated
automatically? I read you only want to use C which I can understand.

Here's where I need to do more reading... 

 * Create binding to edict (entity dictionary?) and other core game APIs
to allow recoding of AI in Lua. 

 * Put in code for creating mframe arrays from Lua tables, rather than
statically compiling into the game. Edict binding would allow control of
AI entities.

 * replace src/game/m_<creature>.c AI one at a time. This is a little
na?ve and makes lots of assumptions. The codebase would probably need a
significant refactoring and plenty binding code in order for this to
happen.

Are there any details on the "luagame" module mentioned on the q2x
description page? Where were you thinking of drawing the binding line?

What might help your project quite significantly is a wiki. They are
great for discussing ideas, documentation, and retaining a history of
descision making. One could be set up for the whole Icculus site
(IcculiWiki?) or just for q2x (Qwiki?!) ? I very much like MoinMoin
(http://moin.sf.net/).

And BTW, what a great game Quake is!

Nick






From hook_l at pyrogon.com  Wed May 14 17:25:15 2003
From: hook_l at pyrogon.com (Brian Hook)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:25:15 -0700
Subject: [q2x] Lua
In-Reply-To: <911F8C8EB7A8084AAEDD55CEDC54D8F810D437@iggy.rockstarvancouver.com>
Message-ID: <2003514142515.970589@centrino>

>I got the latest code from CVS, mirrored your MSVC project workspace
>structure, and built q2x. The software version runs just fine.

I'm not sure how up to date the q2x code base is.

>couldn't get the GL version to compile because of a missing
>"GL/glext.h" file. I can't seem to find this file anywhere.

you'll have to hunt for it somewhere on sgi.com  If you can't find it 
there, let me know and I'll try to dig it up.

Dan Olson, who should also be getting these messages (Dan, you 
alive?), also wanted to dork with the Lua implementation, but until 
the SDL stuff is done (*cough*) I'm really hesitant to push ahead on 
anything at this point.

Getting the "single SDL source" version up and running is our base 
camp we're trying to achieve.

www.q2x.org in case you haven't seen it

My general plan has been to maintain the C game capability in 
parallel with the Lua functionality.  They'll adhere to the same API 
that's in place now, the difference is when you load up the Lua 
version, it starts up the Lua VM and loads up the game in .lua files.

Doing this incrementally will take a lot of forethought, which I had 
done at some point but since been distracted away from =)

My general idea was that the base version would:

1.  have the rest of the dir tree cleaned up
2.  have the rest of the code cleaned up, including SDL-ified

Once we were happy with the general structure, THEN we'd shove in Lua 
functionality a bit at a time, bottom up on the game side.

>Are there any details on the "luagame" module mentioned on the q2x
>description page? Where were you thinking of drawing the binding
>line?

The binding line would be below that of the actual game API as 
defined by Q2.  This way a q2x server itself would not need Lua in 
any form, which I think would be a nice break line.

As for a Wiki, I'm not sure we're quite there yet. =)

Brian




From nick at rockstarvancouver.com  Wed May 14 17:48:57 2003
From: nick at rockstarvancouver.com (Nick Trout)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 14:48:57 -0700
Subject: [q2x] Lua
Message-ID: <911F8C8EB7A8084AAEDD55CEDC54D8F80CB455@iggy.rockstarvancouver.com>


> >I got the latest code from CVS, mirrored your MSVC project workspace 
> >structure, and built q2x. The software version runs just fine.
> 
> I'm not sure how up to date the q2x code base is.

What's out of date: The SDL stuff? Are there any plans to update this
soon?


> >couldn't get the GL version to compile because of a missing 
> >"GL/glext.h" file. I can't seem to find this file anywhere.
> you'll have to hunt for it somewhere on sgi.com  If you can't find it 
> there, let me know and I'll try to dig it up.

I had a quick look and it also doesn't turn up on the search. Since its
only one file could you post it to me or the list please. 


> Dan Olson, who should also be getting these messages (Dan, you 
> alive?), also wanted to dork with the Lua implementation, but until 
> the SDL stuff is done (*cough*) I'm really hesitant to push ahead on 
> anything at this point.
> 
> Getting the "single SDL source" version up and running is our base 
> camp we're trying to achieve.
> 
> www.q2x.org in case you haven't seen it

It redirects to the icculus page, so I have seen it, thanks.


> My general plan has been to maintain the C game capability in 
> parallel with the Lua functionality.  They'll adhere to the same API 
> that's in place now, the difference is when you load up the Lua 
> version, it starts up the Lua VM and loads up the game in .lua files.
> Doing this incrementally will take a lot of forethought, 

Agreed. Wouldn't it be simpler to go all Lua?

> My general idea was that the base version would:
> 1.  have the rest of the dir tree cleaned up
> 2.  have the rest of the code cleaned up, including SDL-ified
> Once we were happy with the general structure, THEN we'd shove in Lua 
> functionality a bit at a time, bottom up on the game side.

So I'll either have to be patient or maybe I should just fork the quake2
project rather than q2x.

> >Are there any details on the "luagame" module mentioned on the q2x 
> >description page? Where were you thinking of drawing the binding
line?
> The binding line would be below that of the actual game API as 
defined by Q2.  This way a q2x server itself would not need Lua in 
any form, which I think would be a nice break line.

No Lua code in the src/server? It would be nice to have a unified
cvar/cmd system, rather than a layered system, i.e. Lua sat on cmd.
Seems a bit inefficient, maybe confusing, writing a binding to call cmds
or having 2 binding systems?

> As for a Wiki, I'm not sure we're quite there yet. =)

Are you sure? You could have left all your forethoughts as a reminder to
you and a guide for others! :-)

Nick




From hook_l at pyrogon.com  Wed May 14 21:33:43 2003
From: hook_l at pyrogon.com (Brian Hook)
Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 18:33:43 -0700
Subject: [q2x] Lua
In-Reply-To: <911F8C8EB7A8084AAEDD55CEDC54D8F80CB455@iggy.rockstarvancouver.com>
Message-ID: <2003514183343.568567@centrino>

>What's out of date: The SDL stuff? Are there any plans to update
>this soon?

I think so.  Also, not sure if the "blessed" Lua distro is 5.0 or 
5.0alpha yet.

>I had a quick look and it also doesn't turn up on the search. Since
>its only one file could you post it to me or the list please.

http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h

>Agreed. Wouldn't it be simpler to go all Lua?

Depends on what you mean by "simpler"?  It would probably be cleaner 
to go 100% Lua, but that would be a full jumping in on the task 
instead of consistently having a fallback to the C version.  I happen 
to like having an alternate verification system at all times, I think 
that makes the porting that much easier.

>So I'll either have to be patient or maybe I should just fork the
>quake2 project rather than q2x.

Right, but since you're interested, I'll get on Dan's case and see 
what the situation is with the SDL port.

>No Lua code in the src/server? 

Right.  The goal is to use Lua, initially, for the game scripting.  
Once we're comfortable with that level of integration, then 

>It would be nice to have a unified
>cvar/cmd system, rather than a layered system, i.e. Lua sat on cmd.
>Seems a bit inefficient, maybe confusing, writing a binding to call
>cmds or having 2 binding systems?

At the outset there will be some overlap and confusion, but hopefully 
the final result will be mostly Lua, as you state.  Replacing the 
cvar system by itself would be trivial to do in a non-destructive 
manner.  If you'd like to give that a shot as a first step, that 
would be very reasonable, since it doesn't impact anything else and 
there's already a clean interface to the cvar system (ri.cvar*, 
Cvar_*, etc.).

>>As for a Wiki, I'm not sure we're quite there yet. =)

>Are you sure? You could have left all your forethoughts as a
>reminder to you and a guide for others! :-)

Bah, that only weakens the mind =)

Brian




From nick at rockstarvancouver.com  Thu May 15 15:18:42 2003
From: nick at rockstarvancouver.com (Nick Trout)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 12:18:42 -0700
Subject: [q2x] Lua
Message-ID: <911F8C8EB7A8084AAEDD55CEDC54D8F80CB457@iggy.rockstarvancouver.com>


> >What's out of date: The SDL stuff? Are there any plans to 
> update this 
> >soon?
> 
> I think so.  Also, not sure if the "blessed" Lua distro is 5.0 or 
> 5.0alpha yet.

Do you mean the one you have chosen? The official Lua distro is now "5.0
final". I can't see any evidence of Lua code in q2x CVS so its surely
not a problem to use 5.0 final. There are changes and bug fixes since
alpha so final is really the only choice.


> http://oss.sgi.com/projects/ogl-sample/ABI/glext.h

Great thanks.

> >Agreed. Wouldn't it be simpler to go all Lua?
> 
> Depends on what you mean by "simpler"?  It would probably be cleaner 
> to go 100% Lua, but that would be a full jumping in on the task 
> instead of consistently having a fallback to the C version.  I happen 
> to like having an alternate verification system at all times, I think 
> that makes the porting that much easier.

I suppose there are two reasons for using Lua here. Firstly to configure
q2x, and then secondly as a scripting mechanism through a binding to the
game.


> >So I'll either have to be patient or maybe I should just fork the 
> >quake2 project rather than q2x.
> Right, but since you're interested, I'll get on Dan's case and see 
> what the situation is with the SDL port.

I have a Lua project (http://doris.sf.net/) which I was going to use for
some simple example of coroutines, perhaps a couple of little games. It
would be nice to have a proper game engine with sound and networking
though. A lot of the open source solutions have a fair amount of
dependencies or extranious features though so I think q2x would be a
cleaner solution. I managed to get all the components and build it in
half an hour or so and I'm sure this could be improved by including the
dependent libraries.

> >It would be nice to have a unified
> >cvar/cmd system, rather than a layered system, i.e. Lua sat on cmd. 
> >Seems a bit inefficient, maybe confusing, writing a binding to call 
> >cmds or having 2 binding systems?
> 
> At the outset there will be some overlap and confusion, but hopefully 
> the final result will be mostly Lua, as you state.  Replacing the 
> cvar system by itself would be trivial to do in a non-destructive 
> manner.  If you'd like to give that a shot as a first step, that 
> would be very reasonable, since it doesn't impact anything else and 
> there's already a clean interface to the cvar system (ri.cvar*, 
> Cvar_*, etc.).

I'll look into this.

> >>As for a Wiki, I'm not sure we're quite there yet. =)
> 
> >Are you sure? You could have left all your forethoughts as a 
> reminder 
> >to you and a guide for others! :-)
> 
> Bah, that only weakens the mind =)

Its about communication, I'm not questioning your ability to retain
information! I however do forget things!

Nick





From nicktrout at shaw.ca  Fri May 16 12:19:05 2003
From: nicktrout at shaw.ca (Nick Trout)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:19:05 -0700
Subject: client/server versions incorrect
Message-ID: <004901c31bc6$defd1b70$9f604f18@quith1>


Had a quick look at q2x this morning - now have GL version working (thanks
for header).

I get: "ERROR: Server returned version 31, not 50." So little difficult to
develop and test changes.

which comes from:

cl_main.c:327:

 // BIG HACK to let demos from release work with the 3.0x patch!!!
 if (Com_ServerState() && PROTOCOL_VERSION == 34)
 {
 }
 else if (i != PROTOCOL_VERSION)
  Com_Error (ERR_DROP,"Server returned version %i, not %i", i,
PROTOCOL_VERSION);

PROTOCOL_VERSION appears to be defined only once in qcommon.h:

#define PROTOCOL_VERSION 50

So I guess the version has some other source? Sorry only had limited time to
do this (this project is done in my spare time).

Nick








From hook_l at pyrogon.com  Fri May 16 12:39:13 2003
From: hook_l at pyrogon.com (Brian Hook)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 09:39:13 -0700
Subject: [q2x] client/server versions incorrect
In-Reply-To: <004901c31bc6$defd1b70$9f604f18@quith1>
Message-ID: <200351693913.974159@centrino>

Crap.  Unfortunately my machine with Q2X installed is packed up with 
the shippers right now and I won't be able to get to it for a few 
weeks =/

I know that my build is working, but it's possible I haven't checked 
it in.

We weren't expecting new contributors so soon, but now that you're 
around, I'm making it priority to make this a priority.

Brian

On Fri, 16 May 2003 09:19:05 -0700, Nick Trout wrote:
>
>Had a quick look at q2x this morning - now have GL version working
>(thanks for header).
>
>I get: "ERROR: Server returned version 31, not 50." So little
>difficult to develop and test changes.
>
>which comes from:
>
>cl_main.c:327:
>
>// BIG HACK to let demos from release work with the 3.0x patch!!! if
>(Com_ServerState() && PROTOCOL_VERSION == 34) { } else if (i !=
>PROTOCOL_VERSION) Com_Error (ERR_DROP,"Server returned version %i,
>not %i", i, PROTOCOL_VERSION);
>
>PROTOCOL_VERSION appears to be defined only once in qcommon.h:
>
>#define PROTOCOL_VERSION 50
>
>So I guess the version has some other source? Sorry only had limited
>time to do this (this project is done in my spare time).
>
>Nick
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





From nick at rockstarvancouver.com  Fri May 16 14:04:27 2003
From: nick at rockstarvancouver.com (Nick Trout)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:04:27 -0700
Subject: [q2x] client/server versions incorrect
Message-ID: <911F8C8EB7A8084AAEDD55CEDC54D8F80CB459@iggy.rockstarvancouver.com>



> Crap.  Unfortunately my machine with Q2X installed is packed up with 
> the shippers right now and I won't be able to get to it for a few 
> weeks =/
> I know that my build is working, but it's possible I haven't checked 
> it in.

Oh well. Arriving or leaving?! :) Wonder if I can modify the quake2
project and then just paste it into q2x when you get it working.


> We weren't expecting new contributors so soon, but now that you're 
> around, I'm making it priority to make this a priority.

Thanks very much, I'll try and help, but like I say it's a pet project
done in my spare time so my contributions may be somewhat eratic. I do
have other things to do. I should finish the Lua tutorial and I have
plenty on at work. Hopefully tolua5 will appear soon and I can convert
Doris and tinker with it. It's a very useful binding tool which could
save work work on the game API. And, summer is here, so I should
probably stick my head out the door and look at that real world place
that you mentioned. I relocated to Vancouver some months ago; it's an
amazing place (I took my hard drives out and brought them in my hand
luggage ;-D).

Nick





From hook_l at pyrogon.com  Fri May 16 14:08:24 2003
From: hook_l at pyrogon.com (Brian Hook)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:08:24 -0700
Subject: [q2x] client/server versions incorrect
In-Reply-To: <911F8C8EB7A8084AAEDD55CEDC54D8F80CB459@iggy.rockstarvancouver.com>
Message-ID: <200351611824.356333@centrino>

>Oh well. Arriving or leaving?! :) 

San Diego -> Atlanta.

what I would ask of you -- since you're very Lua knowledgeable -- is 
get distracted with other stuff for a few weeks, and then when I get 
everything working again dive in headlong =)

Brian




From nick at rockstarvancouver.com  Fri May 16 14:35:31 2003
From: nick at rockstarvancouver.com (Nick Trout)
Date: Fri, 16 May 2003 11:35:31 -0700
Subject: [q2x] client/server versions incorrect
Message-ID: <911F8C8EB7A8084AAEDD55CEDC54D8F80CB45A@iggy.rockstarvancouver.com>



> >Oh well. Arriving or leaving?! :)
> 
> San Diego -> Atlanta.

Good luck. 

 
> what I would ask of you -- since you're very Lua knowledgeable -- is 
> get distracted with other stuff for a few weeks, and then when I get 
> everything working again dive in headlong =)

If I can help you with information about Lua then please don't hesitate
to contact me. I will endeavour to help you on this project since I
think we have similar goals. I have work responsibility which is
obviously my priority but this could become my primary hobby project :)
You have my contact details...

Nick

<enter dormant mode...>

Zzzzzzz....