[cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the PC

Steffen Tronstad sttr at nextgentel.com
Wed Oct 21 03:34:55 EDT 2009


DICE are moving in the same direction: 

Battlefield 1943 - no community servers (matchmaking). 
Battlefield Heroes - only 5 worldwide GSPs (matchmaking). 
All future releases - only windows dedicated servers (if any).

Esport as we know it, is dying :|


-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: Mavrick [mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com] 
Sendt: 21. oktober 2009 09:28
Til: Call of Duty server admin list.
Emne: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the PC

Let's try and get DICE on a webcast with Joker and RudeDog? See if they 
would be willing to back a community built FPS, for FPS Players by FPS 
players?

The latest post by 402 doesn't tell us anything more than what we 
already know imo. "Questions, assumptions, and speculation I intend to 
dispel." He really knows how to put his foot in his mouth.

I would be willing to throw the $100 i didn't spend on COD6 to a 
community built FPS for sure!

Andre Lorbach wrote:
> I didn't like the expensive ranked system either, but aAt least BF2 had an
> the option to run your own "unranked" dedicated servers. 
>
> --
> regards,
> Andre
>
>
>   
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: escapedturkey [mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com]
>> Sent: Dienstag, 20. Oktober 2009 21:41
>> To: Call of Duty server admin list.
>> Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the PC
>>
>> Not a fan of the ranked server system that BF2 had. It was very hurtful
>> to the mod scene. Ranked servers costed more and were restricted to FTP
>> access. Hopefully DICE doesn't do the whole ranked server system again.
>>
>> RaBBiT wrote:
>>     
>>> I've always wanted to move to Valve, but only the real COD community
>>>       
>> can
>>     
>>> make a real source mod that feels like a cod game.
>>> Btw a PC game like cod or coduo...
>>> Time will tell, i'll be glad to map on that project.
>>> Otherwise DICE might make the GOTY on PC with BFBC2.
>>>
>>> PS: What about Treyarch? will they screw things up next year?
>>>
>>> Rabbit
>>>
>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>     *From:* Seth Sauls <mailto:wizz220 at gmail.com>
>>>     *To:* Call of Duty server admin list. <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>     *Sent:* Tuesday, October 20, 2009 9:27 PM
>>>     *Subject:* Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern Warfare 2 on the
>>>       
>> PC
>>     
>>>     I say that a group of community modders and mappers gets together
>>>     and starts a "source" mod.  Call it MW2:Source or something like
>>>       
>> that.
>>     
>>>     Make it badass and build it off the source engine.  Make the maps
>>>     exactly like in MW2, models and all.  Then for a map pack make
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>>     stock cod4 maps/models and so on.
>>>
>>>     What do you all say....
>>>
>>>     Wizz
>>>
>>>     On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 3:20 PM, Josh Luthman <iam8up at gmail.com
>>>     <mailto:iam8up at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>         Did anyone think that maybe they're trying to take away Halo
>>>       
>> 3
>>     
>>>         players?
>>>
>>>         On 10/20/09, Lars Vik <lars at 3056.net <mailto:lars at 3056.net>>
>>>       
>> wrote:
>>     
>>>          > Hi,
>>>          >
>>>          > I have both xbox 360 and PS3, but use the consoles mainly
>>>       
>> for
>>     
>>>         ...well...
>>>          > console games. Like racing games, Rockband etc. But is it
>>>       
>> really
>>     
>>>          > possible to play FPS on console? I have tried misc FPS
>>>       
>> demos
>>     
>>>         and so on,
>>>          > but I find it hopeless. Clearly, if the majority of CoD
>>>         players are on
>>>          > console, i must have missed something? I.e. can you get
>>>         keyboard/mouse
>>>          > to xbox 360? They aren't seriously using the hand
>>>         controller/joystick?
>>>          >
>>>          > I am also a bit surprised IW are selling more of a FPS
>>>       
>> game
>>     
>>>         to console
>>>          > than to PC. I can't help but thing that I am getting old
>>>       
>> or
>>     
>>>         something
>>>          > like that. That I am out of the loop so to speak.
>>>          >
>>>          > Hmmm....
>>>          >
>>>          > John Kennington wrote:
>>>          >> There was a group of modders that tried that and
>>>       
>> succeeded,
>>     
>>>         somewhat.
>>>          >> Red Oktober is a mod and is a decent game, however it is
>>>       
>> far to
>>     
>>>          >> realistic for the casual player.
>>>          >>
>>>          >> John
>>>          >>
>>>          >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 2:49 PM, escapedturkey
>>>          >> <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>          >> <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>> wrote:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>     Tough to say. I think the mod community, if combining
>>>         forces, can
>>>          >>     make any game engine or mod run better, faster, and
>>>       
>> more
>>     
>>>         fun.
>>>          >>     Faith in the community. For open-source, my vote goes
>>>       
>> to:
>>     
>>>          >>     http://xreal-project.net <http://xreal-project.net/>
>>>       
>> --
>>     
>>>         based on IOQuake3.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>     However, even IOQuake3 will do:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>     http://ioquake3.org <http://ioquake3.org/>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>     Enuff of my rambling ...
>>>          >>
>>>          >>     Martin H wrote:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         Problem with the source engine is its not so good
>>>       
>> at
>>     
>>>         making a
>>>          >>         game like CoD, of all the mods i've played to
>>>       
>> date
>>     
>>>         the only
>>>          >>         one that had potential imo was Insurgency. Which
>>>         although fun,
>>>          >>         didnt come close to the gameplay of CoD
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         I just dont think the source engine is cut out
>>>       
>> for a
>>     
>>>         game like
>>>          >>         cod. come to think of it though, i cant think of
>>>         anything that
>>>          >>         is...
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         One of the gripes i have with the system they
>>>       
>> intend
>>     
>>>         on using
>>>          >>         is, if the matchmaking system always puts you
>>>         against people
>>>          >>         at your skill level, how is a player meant to
>>>         progress? i've
>>>          >>         always found the best way to improve is to be
>>>         subjected to
>>>          >>         repeated raping. If IWNet dumps you with players
>>>       
>> on your
>>     
>>>          >>         level, you just wont improve.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         It says its done on "skill level". How is a skill
>>>       
>> level
>>     
>>>          >>         determined? Average KD ratio? if thats the case,
>>>         players will
>>>          >>         be flying up and down the skill rankings every
>>>       
>> time
>>     
>>>         they have
>>>          >>         a bad/good day. If a player is doing particularly
>>>         well on a
>>>          >>         certain day, their KD ratio would increase. But
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>>         next day,
>>>          >>         if they're back to 'normal' levels, they'll be
>>>       
>> way
>>     
>>>         out of
>>>          >>         their depth. Or vice versa. quite easy to have a
>>>       
>> bad
>>     
>>>         day, and
>>>          >>         then find yourself on a server with people way
>>>       
>> below
>>     
>>>         your
>>>          >>         actual skill rating.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         "The biggest benefit of using IWnet by far is the
>>>         fact that
>>>          >>         you don't have to worry about joining a server
>>>       
>> full of
>>     
>>>          >>         aim-bots, wallhacks, or cheaters. Or relying on
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>>         server
>>>          >>         admin of the server to constantly be monitoring,
>>>         banning, and
>>>          >>         policing it."
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         Yeah, thats great until theres an admin that isnt
>>>         100% clued
>>>          >>         up on banning people, and theres a guy on the
>>>       
>> server
>>     
>>>         who's
>>>          >>         name is changing every two seconds. Its going to
>>>       
>> be no
>>     
>>>          >>         different than a CoD4 server in reality.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         Surely the better way to get rid of cheating
>>>       
>> would
>>     
>>>         be to seal
>>>          >>         up all the holes that allow these hacks to be
>>>         created in the
>>>          >>         first place?
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         2009/10/20 Joker{eXtreme+}
>>>       
>> <joker at mycallofduty.com
>>     
>>>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>>
>>>       
>> <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>     
>>>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com
>>>         <mailto:joker at mycallofduty.com>>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            Another post by Bowling
>>>          >>            http://www.fourzerotwo.com/?p=745
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            ~Joker
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            ----- Original Message ----- From:
>>>       
>> "escapedturkey"
>>     
>>>          >>            <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>>          >>            <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            To: "Call of Duty server admin list."
>>>         <cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>            <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>     
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 11:06 AM
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent, Modern
>>>         Warfare 2 on
>>>          >>         the PC
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            Best thing to do is start with the mod makers
>>>       
>> in
>>     
>>>         that first
>>>          >>         interview.
>>>          >>            Have them get together with a single purpose
>>>         "make or mod an
>>>          >>            alternative".
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            Valve offers great support:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>
>>>       
>> http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Building_Mods_with_Valve_Techno
>> logy
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            :)
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            Bong-Master wrote:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                broken record Lmfto no just a long record
>>>       
>> lol
>>     
>>>         any how,
>>>          >>         how &
>>>          >>                were do you
>>>          >>                start ?
>>>          >>
>>>          --------------------------------------------------
>>>          >>                From: "escapedturkey"
>>>         <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>>          >>                <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2009 6:55 PM
>>>          >>                To: "Call of Duty server admin list."
>>>         <cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>                <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry have to vent,
>>>       
>> Modern
>>     
>>>         Warfare 2
>>>          >>         on the PC
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                    Exactly. I don't see why this can't be
>>>         done via the
>>>          >>         Source
>>>          >>                    engine or
>>>          >>                    other means. All the weapons, game
>>>       
>> play,
>>     
>>>         and such
>>>          >>         can be
>>>          >>                    replicated.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                    Valve shows a lot of support, has VAC,
>>>         dedicated Linux
>>>          >>                    binares, etc.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                    Anyhow, I am sounding like a broken
>>>         record. :)
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                    Hannu Kumpeli wrote:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                        Lets put the money together from
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>>         100,000+
>>>          >>         signatures
>>>          >>                        and let some
>>>          >>                        company make us the game we want
>>>       
>> with
>>     
>>>         DEDI
>>>          >>         SUPPORT :D
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                            Let's go open-source or Source
>>>         engine! :)
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                            As I listened to the interview
>>>         most of the
>>>          >>         people
>>>          >>                            talking were
>>>          >>                            modders. Can't they all come
>>>         together and do a
>>>          >>                            Source mod or open
>>>          >>                            source project?
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                            I'm sure a Source engine mod
>>>         would work
>>>          >>         quite well.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                            Source and open-source aren't
>>>       
>> the
>>     
>>>         same, for
>>>          >>         anyone
>>>          >>                            confused. :)
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                            Joker{eXtreme+} wrote:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                Confirmation that they are
>>>         still NOT
>>>          >>         going to
>>>          >>                                put in Dedi Server
>>>          >>                                support.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                I'm done.  Thank you all
>>>       
>> and
>>     
>>>         have a
>>>          >>         good life.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                ~Joker
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                ----- Original Message ---
>>>       
>> --
>>     
>>>         From:
>>>          >>         "Einar S. Idsø"
>>>          >>                                <einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>
>>>          >>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>>
>>>          >>
>>>          <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>
>>>          >>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no
>>>         <mailto:einar.cod at norsk-esport.no>>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                To: "Call of Duty server
>>>         admin list."
>>>          >>                                <cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                Sent: Tuesday, October 20,
>>>         2009 10:32 AM
>>>          >>                                Subject: Re: [cod] Sorry
>>>       
>> have
>>     
>>>         to vent,
>>>          >>         Modern
>>>          >>                                Warfare 2 on the PC
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                Just out: Official
>>>       
>> Infinity Ward
>>     
>>>          >>         response to
>>>          >>                                #MW2 PC players
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         http://gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2009/10/20/modern-
>>>       
>> warfare-2-dedicated-server-response.aspx
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                Cheers,
>>>          >>                                Einar
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at
>>>       
>> 3:12 PM,
>>     
>>>          >>         escapedturkey
>>>          >>
>>>          <escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>
>>>          >>
>>>          <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com
>>>         <mailto:escapedturkey at escapedturkey.com>>>> wrote:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                    Wouldn't it best to
>>>       
>> offer
>>     
>>>         both?
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                    IW.net and dedicated
>>>         servers as an
>>>          >>         option?
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                    That way they can see
>>>       
>> by
>>     
>>>         the statistics
>>>          >>                                    which is the preferred
>>>          >>                                    mode of game
>>>          >>                                    play.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                    Schlup wrote:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                        Yes fake, was
>>>       
>> there
>>     
>>>         really any
>>>          >>         doubt?
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                        -----Original
>>>         Message-----
>>>          >>                                        From: Mavrick
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          [mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>] Sent:
>>>          >>                                        Tuesday,
>>>          >>                                        October 20,
>>>          >>                                        2009 7:42 AM
>>>          >>                                        To: Call of Duty
>>>         server admin list.
>>>          >>                                        Subject: Re: [cod]
>>>         Sorry have
>>>          >>         to vent,
>>>          >>                                        Modern Warfare 2
>>>       
>> on
>>     
>>>         the PC
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>       
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>     
>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>       
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>       
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>     
>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>       
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>       
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>     
>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>       
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>       
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E
>>     
>>>         <http://www.a2kclan.com/blog.htm?a=&nid=407927B7-640B-49AE-
>>>       
>> AD32-B162A0A3049E>>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                        fake?
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                        Richard GrosJean
>>>       
>> wrote:
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                            120k
>>>       
>> signatures
>>     
>>>         to go until it
>>>          >>                                            reaches the
>>>       
>> famed
>>     
>>>         Starcraft
>>>          >>         2 LAN
>>>          >>                                            petition
>>>          >>                                            status.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                            On Tue, Oct
>>>       
>> 20,
>>     
>>>         2009 at
>>>          >>         8:21 AM,
>>>          >>                                            Mavrick Master
>>>          >>
>>>          <mavrick.master at gmail.com <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>
>>>          >>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com
>>>         <mailto:mavrick.master at gmail.com>>>>>
>>>          >>                                            wrote:
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                            84884 Total
>>>         Signatures and
>>>          >>         counting...
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                            **grabs
>>>       
>> another
>>     
>>>         popcorn**
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>       
>> -----------
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                                            cod mailing
>>>       
>> list
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>       
>> cod at icculus.org
>>     
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                                        cod mailing list
>>>          >>                                        cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                                        cod mailing list
>>>          >>                                        cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                                    cod mailing list
>>>          >>                                    cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                                cod mailing list
>>>          >>                                cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>       
>> -------------------
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                No virus found in this
>>>         incoming message.
>>>          >>                                Checked by AVG -
>>>       
>> www.avg.com
>>     
>>>         <http://www.avg.com/>
>>>          >>         <http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>>         <http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                                Version: 8.5.422 / Virus
>>>         Database:
>>>          >>                                270.14.23/2448 - Release
>>>       
>> Date:
>>     
>>>          >>                                10/20/09 10:43:00
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                                cod mailing list
>>>          >>                                cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                            cod mailing list
>>>          >>                            cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                        cod mailing list
>>>          >>                        cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org> <mailto:cod at icculus.org
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>       
>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          _______________________________________________
>>>          >>                    cod mailing list
>>>          >>                    cod at icculus.org
>>>       
>> <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>     
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>       
>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>>     
>>>          >>                cod mailing list
>>>          >>                cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>                http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>>     
>>>          >>            cod mailing list
>>>          >>            cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>       
>> -------------------
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>          >>            Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>         <http://www.avg.com/> <http://www.avg.com
>>>       
>> <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>     
>>>          >>         <http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com/>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            Version: 8.5.422 / Virus Database:
>>>       
>> 270.14.23/2448
>>     
>>>         - Release
>>>          >>         Date:
>>>          >>            10/20/09 10:43:00
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>>     
>>>          >>            cod mailing list
>>>          >>            cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>            http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>       
>> -----------
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >>         _______________________________________________
>>>          >>         cod mailing list
>>>          >>         cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>         http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>     _______________________________________________
>>>          >>     cod mailing list
>>>          >>     cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         <mailto:cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>>
>>>          >>     http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >>
>>>          >> --
>>>          >> No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness
>>>       
>> has
>>     
>>>         always got
>>>          >> there first, and is waiting for it. -- (Terry Pratchett,
>>>         Reaper Man)
>>>          >>
>>>         -------------------------------------------------------------
>>>       
>> -----------
>>     
>>>          >>
>>>          >> _______________________________________________
>>>          >> cod mailing list
>>>          >> cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          >> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >>
>>>          > _______________________________________________
>>>          > cod mailing list
>>>          > cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>          > http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>          >
>>>
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Josh Luthman
>>>
>>>         A patch in time saves kill -9
>>>         -http://www.tuxmaniac.com <http://www.tuxmaniac.com/>
>>>         _______________________________________________
>>>         cod mailing list
>>>         cod at icculus.org <mailto:cod at icculus.org>
>>>         http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>
>>>
>>>     -----------------------------------------------------------------
>>>       
>> -------
>>     
>>>     _______________________________________________
>>>     cod mailing list
>>>     cod at icculus.org
>>>     http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>       
>> ---
>>     
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> cod mailing list
>>> cod at icculus.org
>>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>>       
>> _______________________________________________
>> cod mailing list
>> cod at icculus.org
>> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>>     
> _______________________________________________
> cod mailing list
> cod at icculus.org
> http://icculus.org/mailman/listinfo/cod
>
>   

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